KATO ATSF F7 freight detail

[arbomambo]

Hello all...
Fabricated the center numberboard on this one from .015 evergreen styrene cut to shape; painted it black, then a coat of Future as a gloss coat...I used the silver numbers designed for this on the EMD data sheet from Microscale...I was ready to deem this one 'done' when I realized I didn't have a builders plate! (Thia is an older KATO release-before they started adding kickplates, numbers, builders' plates, etc)
I need to order that sheet anyway so, until it arrives...it's 'done'! (now...to score another A and 2 B units!...with my luck, KATO will decide to re-release these on the new mechanisms with the paint improvements!)
Thanks for looking,
~Bruce

[Ron McF]

...with my luck, KATO will decide to re-release these on the new mechanisms with the paint improvements!

LOL.  Bruce - I'm really hoping that you've already done enough work to invoke that 'rule'. I have three A units and a B unit to paint in this scheme and I've been putting it off for years in anticipation of Kato doing a new run. Nevertheless, you've done a really nice job with this unit, and it incorporates features that Kato is unlikely to add. Thanks for the notes - they'll come in very handy when I do mine.

Regards,
Ron

[Sokramiketes]

Kato got burned, absolutely burned, on the original release of the ATSF freight scheme.  Part of it was their own fault; they over produced.  But, they were expecting sales to match the successful warbonnets. 

Hopefully they'll get over their fear and release the freight scheme, but I don't know how deep those scars are.

[arbomambo]

Kato got burned, absolutely burned, on the original release of the ATSF freight scheme.  Part of it was their own fault; they over produced.  But, they were expecting sales to match the successful warbonnets. 

Hopefully they'll get over their fear and release the freight scheme, but I don't know how deep those scars are.

That's a shame...'cause this is one that is needed on the new mechanism and with the most current paint applications (builders' plates, ss kick plates, etc
Yhey've shown that they're willing, still, to do somewhat 'rare' schemes AND specific phases of locos (The recent ATSF 'yellowbonnet' and the late-mods F3's in warbonnet come to mind)

 This freight acheme AND a SP black widow and bloody nose scheme would really be welcome on the new mechanisms!

Respectfully,
~Bruce

[Philip H]

if I were ever to become a collector (!) it would be of F units.  And I'd need a set of these . . .

[garethashenden]

That's a shame...'cause this is one that is needed on the new mechanism and with the most current paint applications (builders' plates, ss kick plates, etc
Yhey've shown that they're willing, still, to do somewhat 'rare' schemes AND specific phases of locos (The recent ATSF 'yellowbonnet' and the late-mods F3's in warbonnet come to mind)

 This freight acheme AND a SP black widow and bloody nose scheme would really be welcome on the new mechanisms!

Respectfully,
~Bruce

I wonder if they think unusual things (yellow bonnets) will sell purely because they're unusual whereas you have to actually be modeling the Santa Fe in the right period to want freight scheme F units?

[robert3985]

I wonder if they think unusual things (yellow bonnets) will sell purely because they're unusual whereas you have to actually be modeling the Santa Fe in the right period to want freight scheme F units?

As much as I'd like to agree with this statement, it just ain't true.  Lots of model railroaders buy a lot of different roads' engines and cars simply because they like they way they look.  That's the only reason they buy 'em, not because they're modeling that specific road or time period.

They also "run trains" and don't care if there are different roads on the front and a different road name on the caboose, or if there are cars and engines running together that would never be run together due to either location or time period.

Assuming that the vast majority of AT&SF freight F's were bought by avid AT&SF modelers is probably not true.  The amount of modelers who discipline themselves to a particular road and a particular time period are few when compared to model railroaders who buy stuff just because they like it.

I love the paint schemes and engines of the AT&SF, but...I choose to model the 65 mile helper district between Ogden Utah and Wahsatch Utah, scenery and structures being in early Summer 1951, motive power, cars, trains being through 1956...stopping absolutely at 11:59PM on December 31, 1956.

Luckily, I also collect and model engines and trains which ran to Ogden, which includes the SP, D&RGW, WP and The Bamberger, so I get to satisfy some of my non-UP likes.  SP "Bloody Nose" diesels are one of my very favorite paint schemes, but...not my time period, so I stop at SP Black Widow.

I'm really strict about my chosen time period and location, so although I love various non-complying railroad's schemes, trains and engines, I don't buy 'em...ever.

However, my friend Nate (Nato) loves passenger trains, and doesn't care what time period or road, or even what country they represent.  We see photos of all sorts of passenger trains running through the Utah scenery I've built for him at his Riverside section, past the Goodman Farm.  I'm nearly certain that Nate has several AT&SF freight F's, and he does not model that road.

Just sayin'...

[GaryHinshaw]

I wonder if they think unusual things (yellow bonnets) will sell purely because they're unusual whereas you have to actually be modeling the Santa Fe in the right period to want freight scheme F units?

As much as I'd like to agree with this statement, it just ain't true.

Huh?  I think you misinterpreted gareth's speculation.  He's guessing that Kato thinks they'll sell more yellow bonnets than freight units, for all the reasons you list.

Nice job on the loco arbomambo.

[arbomambo]

the yellow bonnets were certainly 'rare'...they weren't around for very long at all...whereas the freight units, in this cigar band scheme, were around from the 1950's, all the way to the mid and late 70's, when most of them were sold or rebuilt to CF7s! anyone modelling the ATSF from the 50's through the 70's can use the freight scheme F's...
pity they didn't sell well...they really look nice in this scheme.
~Bruce

[robert3985]

Huh?  I think you misinterpreted gareth's speculation.  He's guessing that Kato thinks they'll sell more yellow bonnets than freight units, for all the reasons you list.

It's been known to happen... 

[lajmdlr]

The Santa Fe F unit yellow & blue bonnets were painted post Amtrak so they could be used for both passenger & freight. They showed up on the San Diegans til Amtrak got their own power.

[arbomambo]

The Santa Fe F unit yellow & blue bonnets were painted post Amtrak so they could be used for both passenger & freight. They showed up on the San Diegans til Amtrak got their own power.

...and that's precisely how KATO marketed them (the yellowbonnets)...even releasing an 'El Capitan' high level set painted in the Amtrak 'phase !' scheme (pr their first paint scheme-using the phase vernacular sometimes leads to confusion)

~Bruce

[lajmdlr]

Long distance trains like El Capitan & Super chief mostly were pulled by FP45s & a few F45s equipped w/ steam lines for passenger service. The blue & yellow bonnets got used for short distance trains like San Diegans.

[randgust]

The half-a-dozen F7 bluebonnets were 325-class freight F7's.  Not very many of them.  There were also a handful of yellowbonnet, blue-body F9's.  See http://www.atsfrr.com/resources/funits/Santa%20Fe%20Railway%20Historical%20&%20Modeling%20Society%20-%20The%20F-Unit%20Pages.htm

Amtrak leased a collection of F7's from ATSF for early operations 1971-73; they were maintained by ATSF.  The "yellowbonnet" paint scheme became standard as of June 1972 so there weren't supposed to be ANY red and silver repaints after that date; when the leasers came in for shopping them came back out in one of several yellowbonnet variations.  Amtrak did not like the look.    Haven't seen proof that any red and silver units were repainted in the original warbonnet during that lease period but there may have been a few because I've seen some photos with really fresh paint up through late '72.   To me, Santa Fe seemed hell-bent on removing the red and silver warbonnet scheme from memory as fast as possible, along with the "Ship and Travel" car logos.

Failures of the leasers by late '72 were climbing and some FP45's and F-45's came back for a time, paired with F7B units to supply the steam generators because the FP45's had already had them removed.   By mid-late '73 the new SDP40F's were arriving and the F7 lease fleet was turned back to ATSF.    You can almost timestamp early Amtrak on ATSF by looking at power and paint; when I rode in summer '72 it was all F-units in red and silver, dirty, but still pure F-units.  That was really the last time you saw red and silver F-units on the Super Chief and the  summer '72-only Chief.  The 'Chief' I rode on was still clocking 37-second mileposts with 4 F7's and 9 cars; that's 97mph. I'll never forget that and that's why I model the era I do even with dirty F7's.   This is pretty much the train:  http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=72195&nseq=102

ATSF then ran the F-units in all manner of secondary service; many were pressed into drag freight services during the Russian Wheat Crisis in '73 and showed up on the Superior, NE branch in complete mixes; many ran in Texas and Oklahoma until they were either built into CF7's or scrapped.  Really a relatively short time period as the CF7 program was running full-bore.

If you've got any photographs of ANY of the bluebonnets in passenger service there's lots of ATSF fans (plus Kato!) that would love the proof.  Photos of bluebonnets in service are rare enough to begin with.   When you really start to research it, the yellowbonnet in passenger service was during a period measured in months, not years.   And while I can't prove it, it seems like the yellowbonnets showed up more on the Texas Chief and the FP45's/F45's/F7B's showed up more on the Super Chief during that pre-SDP40F period in late 72 thru 73.