N scale Coal Mine Questions

[Kisatchie]

I've been giving some thought about having a couple of coal mines on my dream layout. That got me wondering... how many hopper cars does an N scale coal mine need?

Anyone with a coal mine... feel free to answer.

Also, how much room (and trackage) does your coal mine need?

Thanks for any pointers.


Hmm... I had a hip
pointer once. Couldn't swing
from tree to tree...

[FrankCampagna]

Can be as big or as small as you want. A truck dumping product into a single hopper on a siding. A massive coal breaker serving scores of cars a day. And you can have the railroad running cars from the mine to the breaker. Coal mines are quite complicated, but can be modeled simply, if one wishes.

[Chris333]

I got these saved. It is the real mine that the Walther's kit is based on:
https://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/NScale#5922499298183163842
https://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/NScale#5922499285272105506
https://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/NScale#5922499279866095522

Not helpful, but could give you ideas.

[Kisatchie]

Can be as big or as small as you want. A truck dumping product into a single hopper on a siding. A massive coal breaker serving scores of cars a day. And you can have the railroad running cars from the mine to the breaker. Coal mines are quite complicated, but can be modeled simply, if one wishes.

Hmm... so cars go from the mine to the breaker (whatever that is?). Anyone care to explain the process to me in simple terms.

This is what I THOUGHT the process was: Railroad brings cars to mine. Cars get filled up with coal. Railroad takes cars to power plant or some other user(s).


Hmm... I'm gonna go sit
this one out...

[Kisatchie]

Thanks, Chris. I saved the Edna Mine diagram. I wonder how many cars a day it handles?


Hmm... a nice beer and
a baseball game for me...

[LV LOU]

Hmm... so cars go from the mine to the breaker (whatever that is?). Anyone care to explain the process to me in simple terms.

This is what I THOUGHT the process was: Railroad brings cars to mine. Cars get filled up with coal. Railroad takes cars to power plant or some other user(s).


Hmm... I'm gonna go sit
this one out...

Kiz,the coal is mined underground,and brought right to the breaker in most cases,usually by conveyor belts on really big,modern mines,one car at a time on older mines,either by elevator,or slope.Elevators on mines that mine coal veins that runs flat across the earth,'slopes" where the coal follows the lay of the earth up a mountainside.On the slope type mine,the shafts follow the coal up the mountain.
  The breaker is a facility that processes the coal.In very old breakers,the rock was sorted out of the coal by hand before it was crushed..In modern breakers,some use "heavy media",a process where the coal & rock are run through a proprietary mix of minerals and water.This mix is heavier than coal,but lighter than rock,so the coal floats to the top,and is scooped off,and the rock settles to the bottom,and is removed by auger,ETC.Others use compressed air set just right,which blows across the raw coal,and blows the coal out,but lets the rock fall.After this,the coal runs through a series of screens,which seperates the coalo into different sizes & grades,Rice,Pea,Buck,Nugget,ETC..Really big Anthracite mines near me may have filled as many as 40 cars a day,smaller ones,10 or less.I would think a days production in the Walthers mine would be 10-20 or so.

[Kisatchie]

Thanks, Lou. That's interesting. Stuff I never knew.

Don't say ANYTHING, Dee.


Hmm... hmm hmm hmm
hmm hmm hmm...

[Bruce Bird]

Don't forget the track layout.  On spurs that run up valleys there is typically a yard upstream of the loader where the empties are pushed up and delivered.  The loader is in the middle, and then another yard where the loads are collected.  The cars are usually fed into the loader and down to the load yard using gravity.

Bruce

[Robert_56]

Kiz,

In reference to the Edna Mine, some info is located here: http://cachejunctionogden.blogspot.c...&max-results=7 about half way down that page you can see the tipple track diagram. Look for older posts (at the bottom of the page) specifically for the blog post dated Thursday, November 22, 2012, it's a good short read.

Robert

[nkalanaga]

Lou covered the subject pretty thoroughly, but to simplify, what most people think of as the "coal mine" is usually the breaker and tipple, with the mine out of sight underground.  If you wanted to model the actual mine, you'd also need the ventilation buildings and shaft/drift, quite often a separate personnel and machinery entrance, often a machine shop, etc.  By law all coal mines have to have at least two entrances, to ensure proper air flow throughout the mine.  Usually one has the fans and their power source, while the other is for people, machines, and coal. 

If one wants a large "mine" and has limited space, at least for a diesel-era mine, one option is to build as large a breaker building as will fit and model a conveyor coming from the other side of the hill. 

Many of today's steam coal mines use continuous mining machines, that basically scrape the coal from the face, and they only have one loading track.  All of the coal is the same grade, so no need for the grading process, and there's little need for cleaning, as the machines don't gather many rocks.  That coal often goes into a large silo and then straight into a unit train.  Again, an easy modeling project, just a round silo and a conveyor over the hill.

[rogergperkins]

When MR did their series on n-scale Clinchfield, they placed a coal mine and power plant on the layout.   Then connected the two under a mountain by two tracks.
A coal train could deliver loaded hopper cars to the power plant backing the cars in and disconnect.  Then locomotive to could be connect to empty hoppers on the adjacent track and take them back to the power plant.
I attempted to model this operation on one of my earlier layouts.   
If one is doing an Edna mine set up, that creates a challenge of hiding the connecting tracks between mine and power plant, but could be done with a lesser sized hill.

[Big Windy]

Thanks for the details,I kinda,sorta had an idea but its nice to have the actual processes.

[DKS]

When MR did their series on n-scale Clinchfield, they placed a coal mine and power plant on the layout.   Then connected the two under a mountain by two tracks.
A coal train could deliver loaded hopper cars to the power plant backing the cars in and disconnect.  Then locomotive to could be connect to empty hoppers on the adjacent track and take them back to the power plant.
I attempted to model this operation on one of my earlier layouts.   
If one is doing an Edna mine set up, that creates a challenge of hiding the connecting tracks between mine and power plant, but could be done with a lesser sized hill.

This is referred to as a "loads in empties out" configuration. It's a popular modeling option because it not only offers a paired industry to work, but it solves the problem of what to do with all of the loaded coal hoppers you pull from the mine (or, why are you pulling empty hoppers out of the mine). You deliver empties to the mine, and courtesy of the hidden connection, pull the empties from the power plant; then, you pull loads from the mine, and deliver them to the power plant.

[Kisatchie]

Thanks, everyone, for all the great information. Since I'm going to model 1971, I'm going to plan on using the Walthers coal mine (if I can find one in a couple of years when I hope to build my layout).


Hmm... I'll scratchbuild a
mine for Kiz...



No, you won't, Dee!

[oakcreekco]

Spent a lot of time when I was young hanging out by the Edna mine. Always interesting operation.

All the coal from that mine was "stripped" from the other side of the mountain, which is out of site from the pics.

All along that valley where the Edna was, were numerous mines at one point. The only thing left today is concrete footings.

The mines that are still running in that area are "continuous fill" for the trains, and they are tunnel mined.

Continuous fill could be easy and fun to model. There's a long elevator that goes to the top of a concrete silo. Tracks go through the silo, just a single track, and the train moves very slowly through the silo. Never stops.

DRGW at its' best, in the old days, and I was lucky to be able to watch it all.