EZ Line from Berkshire Junction

[draskouasshat]

Ill post some pictures of a test run when i get home next week with the cooper wire. Im interested to see how it does.

Drasko

[randgust]

To me EZ Line is one of the great tools we have to create a more realistic scene...

Mine has been installed for over 5 years now and it's still elastic.

I'm glad you posted this because Mike's is the only layout I've seen that has extensive use of it.   Looked great, and was absurdly flexible.

When I was a kid in HO I did telephone wires with thread, had a clumsy accident and watched the entire 8' Atlas plastic pole line come down snapping them all off at once.   Never seemed like a good idea ever since.   Mike's application is the only one I've seen firsthand that's made me rethink that.

I've got some beautiful wood poles that Verne Niner made with individual insulators, but I just can't imagine them holding up to line of any kind.  I'd think you're want some pretty rugged poles to make this practical.

[robert3985]

I've been experimenting around for a long time with stringing near scale-sized lineside utility pole signal lines.  Part of the problem is not the size of the wire, since small-enough string, line and wire are pretty readily available, but...(1) it forms a formidable barrier to handling anything alongside your track (2) If actual wire or line is strung on each and every corresponding insulator, the combined force of them is strong enough to severely bend the poles, break the crossarms and snap off insulators...especially if the lines are accidently hit or caught with a finger or sleeve (3) TIME...I've looked and looked at prototype photos, and in the vast majority of them that have lineside utility poles in them, the signal wires are not visible.  I mean they're INVISIBLE...and in the few photographs they ARE visible in, they're barely visible...so, is it worth all of the time it will take me to string scale-sized wire all over my layout on every utility pole and power pole???

The nice thing about Berkshire Junction's grossly oversized EZ Line is that it's not going to destroy your poles if you catch your finger or sleeve on it...unless you keep going of course!  I've worked on a set of modules that a young N-scaler was superdetailing and he'd used EZ Line on his utility poles.  I was happy that it was extremely elastic because I caught my fingers and camera strap on it several times and didn't do any damage at all to his work.

However, from a prototype photo aspect, which is of major interest to me...the obviousness of signal (and power) lines that are over a scale 1" in diameter (almost two scale inches) and which would be plainly visible in my photos, would actually lessen my photos realism.

With all of this thought going through my brain, I decided to actually string some .002" stainless wire in some photos I was taking for the cover of Rail Model Journal way back when.  The wire was quite stiff and didn't "droop" like I wanted, and I only strung it between three poles on the Weber Canyon modules I used for the photos for the RMJ article.  I wanted to see if I could see the wire, to see how it looked in quality photos, and whether it was worth stringing on my own modules.

Photo (1) - .002" stainless wire strung on N Scale of Nevada pewter/wood utility poles:


Note that I strung only three lines of the wire because of time constraints and I didn't want to use my entire supply of it.

It's visible only where the light shines on it is the first thing I noticed.  Secondly, the shine was too much, as prototype line is oxidized and dull.  Thirdly, it wasn't smooth, which didn't look very "real" to me.

My verdict at the time was that is wasn't worth the time and effort to do it, and it didn't improve the realism of the N-scale scene.

Here's a comparo of similar Wilhemina Pass photos, one being on my layout, the other being the real deal.

Photo (2) Prototype trackage showing utility poles and rock detectors alongside the mainline in Wilhemina Pass between Henefer and Morgan, just east of Devils Slide UT.  See any signal wires or rock detector wires????


Photo (3) Utility poles on my Wilhemina Pass LDE:


The only lines that are visible in my LDE are the power/signal lines from the pole to the relay box, and from the relay box to the cantilever signal bridge, because there aren't any lines strung anywhere else.

When I look at my modeled scene, I think "Hmmm...no signal lines visible on the poles...must be a model!"  When I look at the prototype photo, I don't notice the lack of line visibility. 

It's my brain playing tricks on me...because I expect as a rivet counter/a$$hat that I should string wires, and I haven't...when in reality, they're not visible.

However, I'm still not sure what to do...to satisfy my personal expectations, or to make my photos look more realistic.  Aw well.....

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[wazzou]

For me, it's not as much about the wired pole lines as much as it is about the piss-poor availability of good line poles.

I've spoken to Rick Rideout at Rix on more than one occasion as far back as 20 years ago pleading with him to make his poles and crossarms available to N Scale.
If you haven't seen them, they are fantastic models in HO Scale.

https://rixproducts.com/product-category/telephone_poles/

Obviously, I haven't gotten anywhere.

Edited to add picture of Rix HO Crossarms.
Their poles are nice with slight wood grain and are notched in locations that the crossarms should be mounted making for a strong joint by increasing the contact area instead of just on the surface of a round pole.

[dem34]

For me, it's not as much about the wired pole lines as much as it is about the piss-poor availability of good line poles.

I've spoken to Rick Rideout at Rix on more than one occasion as far back as 20 years ago pleading with him to make his poles and crossarms available to N Scale.
If you haven't seen them, they are fantastic models in HO Scale.

Obviously, I haven't gotten anywhere.

Osborn Models makes some, though they are better than the stock vintage ones I still wasn't %100 happy with how they looked.

And as a sidenote, I feel much better that even the pros are struggling with the back and forth that I'm having with my photo module.

[wazzou]

Yeah, I've seen the Osborn ones and they aren't quite what I'd be looking for.
They kind of lost me at the size of the bracing in relation to the crossarm.

[randgust]

Verne's poles are simply fantastic - stained individual wood parts and individually applied insulators.

I got about 30 poles from him and enough parts for another 30 poles and I've only successfully assembled about 4 more poles... gluing insulators to crossarms, I don't know how he ever even did it.

I'm split (pun intended) between poles that look that good and something as tough as Kevlar or carbon-fiber seems impossible.   I know that brittle Styrene won't cut it, but most of your more flexible/tough nylon plastics are shiny and unpaintable.   I've made most of my poles on the layout semi-breakaway as I'd rather repair a hole in the scenery rather than loose a pole.

Closeup of Verne's work:  http://www.randgust.com/Nscalenorm01.jpg   (Yes, that's Norm and Sue in the background retired at the Flagstaff trailer)

These were all Verne's that I got when he went into On30; wish I had more:  http://www.randgust.com/winslow%20welcome5.jpg

But I still love Mike Winicki's wires.... it's a real wow when you see it firsthand, even if photo theory says they are fat.

[peteski]

Verne's poles are simply fantastic - stained individual wood parts and individually applied insulators.

I got about 30 poles from him and enough parts for another 30 poles and I've only successfully assembled about 4 more poles... gluing insulators to crossarms, I don't know how he ever even did it.

I'm split (pun intended) between poles that look that good and something as tough as Kevlar or carbon-fiber seems impossible.   I know that brittle Styrene won't cut it, but most of your more flexible/tough nylon plastics are shiny and unpaintable.   I've made most of my poles on the layout semi-breakaway as I'd rather repair a hole in the scenery rather than loose a pole.

Closeup of Verne's work:  http://www.randgust.com/Nscalenorm01.jpg   (Yes, that's Norm and Sue in the background retired at the Flagstaff trailer)

These were all Verne's that I got when he went into On30; wish I had more:  http://www.randgust.com/winslow%20welcome5.jpg

But I still love Mike Winicki's wires.... it's a real wow when you see it firsthand, even if photo theory says they are fat.

Sure, that sounds great, but the crossarms and insulators look out of scale.  Here we have discussion on trying to find "wire" that is close to scale, just to hang it on caricatures of line poles?  Makes no sense to me.

And I mentioned earlier (and so have others), truly-scaled line poles (including crossarms and insulators) would have to be so delicate that they would likely not survive long on an operating train layout. They might not even survive the wire being strung on them. Maybea viable choice on a diorama enclosed in a display case, but that is about it.

[draskouasshat]

Im in a different situation. Im a signalman so it would be absurd if i didn't string my line wire.
As for Bob's point as line wire not showing up in photos, i agree, its hard to see in photos but in person, the naked eye can see it, even from an n-scale distance vantage point. Well, at least my eyes for now. I also notice that stuff since it my profession i guess.

Drasko

[Carolina Northern]

Good to see Sue and Norm again. Hope they're enjoying their retirement.

[Bob]

Bob - incredible photo of your Wilhemina Pass LDE!  Do you have a Layout Engineering thread or your own website where you have more photos?  Really impressive!

[MichaelWinicki]

Our home was next to a PRR/PC mainline when I was a kid and for me a big part of the scene were those Pennsy telegraph poles and all the wires... regardless that even the thin EZ line is too thick, or the Atlas poles aren't quite right or the insulators not the right size... To not include poles & wires would have resulted in a partially completed scene.  And in PRR/PC prototype pics... image after image– You see poles & wires.  They're just a dominant player, especially along a main.

[Mark W]

"Fine" EZ Line is .010"...

I thought I was missing something because the EZ Line I've always worked with is way thinner than the .010 phosphor bronze I've used for detailing, so I broke out the calipers.
Here is Fine EZ line laying through the calipers set at .010".  I know Berkshire Junction lists them at .010", but there's clearly quite a bit of daylight visible.


https://i.imgur.com/f90SVwq.jpg

Doing my best not to pinch, I read between .004 and .003".   When stretched, it'll easily go below .002".


https://i.imgur.com/wv2URoS.jpg


Birds sure love EZ Line too.   


https://i.imgur.com/Gh4YgSw.jpg


Sheen off the lines also help those 3D printed translucent insulators pop!  _{I know Spring Creek has a few packs left.}   


https://i.imgur.com/TtpbtvI.jpg

[Maletrain]

I thought I was missing something because the EZ Line I've always worked with is way thinner than the .010 phosphor bronze I've used for detailing, so I broke out the calipers.
Here is Fine EZ line laying through the calipers set at .010".  I know Berkshire Junction lists them at .010", but there's clearly quite a bit of daylight visible.

Doing my best not to pinch, I read between .004 and .003".   When stretched, it'll easily go below .002".

Interesting.  O.1 mm = 0.0039".  I wonder is somebody, somewhere, got a conversion confused.

[Angus Shops]

A Rix type product would be huge addition. Good line side poles seem to me to be one of the big holes in product availability in N scale. Plastic like Rix, or etched brass cross arms that could be soldered to brass poles for greater durability.

Years ago I used some very fine nylon thread (think of the finest monofilament fishing line you could imagine) to wire up some plastic poles. I recall that the poles were European and moulded in black plastic. They were also smaller than the Atlas poles, more in line  with the smaller scale of railroad line side poles. The whole arrangement was surprisingly durable and lasted some years before that layout was demolished.

I still have the spool of thread; I can’t calliper it but it’s easily less than 0.005, but it is translucent white and difficult to see. However, nylon thread seems to be available in a variety of colours. I recall I tried to spray paint mine black after installation, but that only made it too ‘bold’.

On my current layout the typical placement of the poles would be between the viewer and the track for most of the layout.  This, combined with the effort to string all of poles I would need, leads me to think that I wouldn’t string my non existent line side poles. But I’m not a signalman.

Geoff