Wood, arch-windowed coaches? Do they exist in N?

[mmagliaro]

I am betting the answer is "No", but have passenger cars like this ever been done in N Scale?
They can be kits.  They can be undecorated.  Thanks.

[Sokramiketes]

Not exactly.  Your closest starting point is probably the MDC 50' "Overland" cars.  But you will have to modify the arches.

A great resource for knowing what passenger cars are available is Fred Klein's site, if you don't have it book marked yet: http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/

Check out Part 1 for the wood cars.

[dougnelson]

Hi Max:

Several years ago Claus Schlund made sides for what I believe were wood Pullmans.  I have never seen any others.

Doug.

[bbussey]

There was a brass kit decades ago as well that used a Northeastern wood roof.

[PGE_Modeller]

Max,

Many years ago, Western Railcraft had some etched brass kits for arch window wooden cars.  It would be great if Athearn would bring out the former HO scale MDC Pullman Palace Cars in N scale!!  I could use several myself as kitbashing fodder to model the former Oregon Electric cars that came to the Pacific Great Eastern.

Cheers,

[nkalanaga]

I have no real use for them, as neither the BN nor Amtrak ran them, but with small steam becoming more available, there would seem to be a market for older passenger cars.  Superliners look a little silly behind a 4-4-0...

Actually, they look a little silly behind a renumbered GN F7, which is what Amtrak used for the Empire Builder before the SDP40Fs.   That's why I don't own any Superliners.  A wooden passenger car could at least be explained as a museum piece.

Seriously:  Would the FRA have allowed one to be run on a fan trip in the early 70s?

[randgust]

There wasn't an FRA in the early 70's.   There were some AAR bans on some technical components (archbar trucks, to name one) but those AAR restrictions were for interchange, not operation.

In the 70's there were still a lot of friction-bearing trucks, and most railroad museums got their stuff there on its own wheels during that era, obsolete or not.    So in theory, if your car had a steel frame, acceptable wheels, etc., it could still run...if the individual railroad mechanical department let it.    One of the great memorable excursions of all times was when the Strasburg 1223 and 7002 went out on the Conrail main line at speed and ran excursions - with the wooden-sided Strasburg (ex B&M) car fleet in tow at about 70mph.  That was in the 80's.

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The first big push for what was acceptable and what was not was started by Amtrak, for private car rules, on what could be hauled behind their passenger trains, with HEP, at 120mph.   That more or less became the codification of passenger car standards acceptable for many operators on main lines.   AARPCO also became more important during that era as an industry organization trying to work through passenger car standards for main line excursions, etc.

Car interior flammability standards, etc., really only apply to new construction, much to the frustration of any operation trying to make reproduction cars for excursions and museums.   You pretty much have to rebuild an older car to avoid them.

Even today, the individual railroads carry more weight on what they will accept than defined national standards for interchange and operation.  It's not entirely homogenous, but an interesting patchwork of federal regulation overlaid with additional mechanical department rules by railroad.

[jmlaboda]

"Seriously:  Would the FRA have allowed one to be run on a fan trip in the early 70s?"

Yes.  Surviving cars such as this were rebuild back in the 20's with steel underframes and end plates which would allow the cars to survive in service.  While the trust rods usually were retained the rebuilding of the underframe would allow them to continue to be used for several more decades.  While I would not expect to see them on mainline passenger trains excursion service on shortlines would still be a possibility.

A notable example is Rutland 260, which has seen use on the Green Mountain for several decades...
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?october08/10-26-08/Rutland260BellowsFallsVT_Oct13_2008PM.jpg

"There wasn't an FRA in the early 70's."

The FRA was created in 1966.

[spookshow]

The old Western Railcraft brass kit cars are pretty much it for N scale (if you can even find them) - http://www.spookshow.net/passenger/wrold.html

Slicing and dicing the Athearn cars is probably the most common solution -



Cheers,
-Mark

[randgust]

Ah, perhaps, but the key legislation that started FRA regulation wasn't even passed until 1970, the Federal Railroad Safety Act of 1970 - that gave it some teeth.  I'd have to did the original act out to find when the compliance dates were effective, but track standards were the first major target - this was the PC standing derailment era and that was the focus. 

By the time you get through rulemaking, commentary, final rules and implementation dates, there's usually at least a two-year spread in there on most FRA regs. 

But back to the original question, I concur - there's no hard-and-fast rule that says it couldn't happen, although you're pretty much assuming the cars had a steel frame by then through previous rebuildings.  But most 70-85' foot cars were built with at least a steel sill if not a steel frame anyway, its the shorter cars that were all-wood frames from the start.

[sirenwerks]

Max's request sounds like opportunity for an etched replacement side (and ends?) for an existing clerestory roof car.

[mmagliaro]

The old Western Railcraft brass kit cars are pretty much it for N scale (if you can even find them) - http://www.spookshow.net/passenger/wrold.html

Slicing and dicing the Athearn cars is probably the most common solution -



Cheers,
-Mark

Mark,
Who made that car in your photo?  That is really nice!

Unfortunately, even the Athearn cars do not have curved arched windows like the photo I showed.
And there only appears to be one Western Railcraft car that has a row of windows, which, although arched, are narrow and very different.   I was hoping for something a little closer to the prototype I showed.
It doesn't have to be perfect, but wide arched windows, the roof, and a heavyweight are what I'm
looking for.  As I suspected, the short answer is, "No, there ain't nothing like that" in N.

Brass sides on the MTL heavyweight would be great... that is, if somebody made brass sides like that.

--- Max

[bbussey]

Max, you might have to etch what you're looking for.  Mark's kitbashing solution is probably the most viable in utilizing existing components.

[wazzou]

A modeler of Max's talent could certainly make some billets to plug the top windows and cut true arches into them and square off the bottoms of the washroom windows.

[peteski]

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned rapid prototyping.  With wooden sides, the RP layering effect might not be all that objectionable.