Conrail Windsor St Yard (York PA) Engineering Report

[seusscaboose]

Eric came over last night, and proved something key (by way of injury): the duckunder idea sucked.

yeah
John hurt his knee at my place 3 years ago
know I hurt my knee at your place
karma is a bitch... just don't go over to someone's layout over the next 3 years and you will be fine.

knee is a little jacked.
sprained for sure.
possible meniscus damage.. but that is after 22 years of playing soccer and refereeing.
it is time for some therapy or arthroscopic surgery anyway...  gotta get it cleaned up.

if the walking during my trip to Italy and then Disney 2 weeks later told me anything... it is that my left knee is in need of repair.

in the meantime.  I am glad we could make some progress on your brainstorming.  I wanna see the other end of the layout (north of York)

[MVW]

If you guys will pardon an interruption of your war stories  , is there a space diagram anywhere in this thread? I looked back 10-12 pages, and in 4-5 pages from the start. Ed?

Jim

[conrail98]

Since we chatted offline the other day, I really think you need the 2nd half of your layout to be mobile, i.e., on casters so you can setup and take down and not affect the myriad of doors you have. I really think this is the only solution to you getting the type of ops you want, the staging you need, and keeping the comforts of the rest of the space,

Phil

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I'm not building the rest of it on casters...

Also, Dave, I relent. I'm going to build some staging into the other (non drawn here) side.

Also, here's the space I'm working with. The Yard takes up the right half, in that photo.

[wm3798]

Put staging on a narrow shelf behind the wall.  Not sure the best way to access it, but there's the real estate.  Put it on both sides of the doorway, and utilize the stair riser trick to make point to point operations possible.
When you want to run loops, close the drop leaf bridge, which would be behind the wall, out of site, and out of the way of the door swing.

Keep the peninsula for your York switching district,

The narrow shelf coming out of the stairway could be done up as one of your brilliant "negative space" scenes, maybe a culvert being the only structure in about 7' of railroad... then a Northern Baltimore Co. hamlet like Parkton or Monkton, then maybe a warehouse district or even the Stewstown on the fat bit under the window.

There.  Problem solved.  Thank me later.

Lee

PS:  Don't worry about cutting a hole in the steps in regard to resale value etc.  Cut a plug, put a carpet runner down, and BAM.  Sell the house for more because the steps are now carpeted.

[davefoxx]

Not bad, Lee.

It's a shame that you can't move the door to the unfinished side of the basement towards the steps, so to create more wall space for York and to allow some more room for operators inside the layout.

DFF

[MVW]

Beautiful in its simplicity. And while Dave's right about the doorway, you still have a 4-foot aisle between York and the yard. You'd think that would be adequate.

One question: Is it possible to incorporate return loops in the staging area? Space hogs, I know, but it's nice to be able to turn trains, rather than have to perform a runaround. Or don't you expect to "recycle" trains as part of the ops plan?

Jim

[basementcalling]

Not bad, Lee.

It's a shame that you can't move the door to the unfinished side of the basement towards the steps, so to create more wall space for York and to allow some more room for operators inside the layout.

DFF

Who says the peninsula for York has to come off the wall perpendicular to it? Why not angle it down and to the left some, while still leaving enough aisle space so anything that needs to get through the door can pass between it's lower LH edge and the edge of the stairs.

What's the "stair riser" trick Lee?

[wm3798]

Moving the door would cut the staging area on the left's usefulness. 

Agreed, staging loops are much more car card friendly than a stub/runaround, but the stub staging affords better access for re-blocking trains before they come back on the layout.  Basically, the back room operator(s?) will have as much work as the yard guy out front.

In fact, with good dispatching and two staging operators, you can probably have more trains using less space...since (like the real thing) the traffic would always be flowing, and not bottled up in storage tracks.

Consider, if the stubs are to the outer ends, and the drop leaf is an X, the staging yard on the left behind the stairs sends traffic into the west end of the Windsor Street yard, and the yard on the left would represent Baltimore, crossing over the bridge, through the steps and on to Parkton and York from the south.

Sadly, I already burned my drop leaf... but it was a pretty simple design, and not without its flaws that could be corrected in a new version...




Lee

[Ed Kapuscinski]

While you were all busy planning my layout for me, and putting together a couple years of construction plans... I figured out the other end.



The staging tracks in the back continue back another 41" to the wall, too, making them nice and long. The open space there also makes it possible to use it as a fiddle yard, which means, most of my staging goals are met.

The only downside to all of this is that trains going south will have to run back to the yard as "phantom trains", which, honestly, I've already made my peace with, and actually think will keep it even more fun.

So, now, pick it apart...

Oh, also, this happened yesterday too.

[chicken45]

I think the color of the foam is pretty nice, but not sure if it is prototypical for York.
 

[Ed Kapuscinski]

A drawing showing how the whole thing fits. One of these days, I'm going to draw up the actual yard...

[wm3798]

You hate phantom trains.  The whole reason that damn yard got built in the first place was all your bellyaching about phantom trains. 



There's the evidence.  B!tch B!tch B!tch!

Two things... 
I hate the return blob, which begets the phantom trains.  It will be useless as a scenic element, and it will be the first thing a visitor sees upon stumbling down the steps. 

It's also an uncomfortable radius for the TOFC cars you know will be a key part of your traffic.  As a return loop, you live with it.  As a highly visible layout location, it sucks big donkey  .

The yardish looking thing in the back corner is inaccessible and you'll hate it as much as you hate phantom trains.  If that's supposed to be a fiddle/staging thing, it will quickly become a pain for the operator who has to lean across 3' of layout to manipulate cars and turnouts.  Make it go away.

Repent.  Cut the damn hole in the stair riser and get on with it. 

Work on diagramming your staging behind the wall.  I want to see what you have in mind there so I can acerbically point out the flaws in your thinking.

Mr. Warmth

[Scottl]

Feelin' the love here 

[Ed Kapuscinski]

You hate phantom trains.  The whole reason that damn yard got built in the first place was all your bellyaching about phantom trains. 

I might've hated them back then. But that was when I was young and dumb.

Two things... 
I hate the return blob, which begets the phantom trains.  It will be useless as a scenic element, and it will be the first thing a visitor sees upon stumbling down the steps. 

It's also an uncomfortable radius for the TOFC cars you know will be a key part of your traffic.  As a return loop, you live with it.  As a highly visible layout location, it sucks big donkey  .

I know, it kinda sucks, but there isn't much else to do if I'm going down that front wall. It worked ok on the shelf though, and the radius here is larger than that was.

The yardish looking thing in the back corner is inaccessible and you'll hate it as much as you hate phantom trains.  If that's supposed to be a fiddle/staging thing, it will quickly become a pain for the operator who has to lean across 3' of layout to manipulate cars and turnouts.  Make it go away.

It's only inaccessible if you're @seusscaboose. The rest of us will be able to duck under and get to it. That's why there's no benchwork in that area.

Repent.  Cut the damn hole in the stair riser and get on with it. 

No! It's carpeted, and because of the bump out, I won't have the straight shot you're thinking it'll be. Plus, I need the storage space under the steps too, and it'd be too disruptive.

Work on diagramming your staging behind the wall.  I want to see what you have in mind there so I can acerbically point out the flaws in your thinking.

Mr. Warmth

Behind which wall?