Are there any large Z scale layout

[DKS]

Is it the track code that is the issue?  With Peco 36" flex, all you need are turnouts and a few crossings.

All Z scale track is close enough in code to be interchangeable, for the most part. The problem with Peco flex is the tie spacing (also, Peco did not make this for Z scale, but instead for Nn3). MTL flex has the right tie spacing, just frustratingly short sections.

Then comes the problem of switches. The only non-roadbed option is Märklin, which isn't the best-looking in terms of tie spacing, and they are fiddly-sensitive and should not be ballasted if you want them to continue functioning. They have straight and curved switches, plus double-slips.

For roadbed switches, there's MTL, which has correct tie spacing but only one size of switch! Rokuhan has a few more switches to offer (basically they are working towards the same line-up as Märklin), but there's a huge tie spacing issue.

If you're not fussy about the appearance of track, you can sort of minimally get by; however, if you prefer more realistic track, note that the rail for commercial track is between Code 55 and 60--all grossly overweight--and there are no switches long enough for US mainline applications. So you're basically stuck hand-laying it all.

[ztrack]

Dave the Peco tie spacing matches the Marklin tie spacing perfectly. It is very much a European standard, not necessarily Nn3. It is very difficult to tell the difference between Peco and Marklin track.

Fast Tracks makes a large number of turnout jigs for the do-it-yourselfers. Great stuff! They offer a range from #4 up to #10.

Rob

[DKS]

Dave the Peco tie spacing matches the Marklin tie spacing perfectly. It is very much a European standard, not necessarily Nn3. It is very difficult to tell the difference between Peco and Marklin track.

I wasn't disputing the tie spacing issue, just the fact that Peco is not in the Z scale track business--their product is listed as N scale narrow gauge: http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3309,3310&CAT_ID=3314&P_ID=17078
It's also Code 60, which matches Märklin's as the most oversize rail.

This is all fine for European modelers; for North American modelers who care about tie spacing (but not rail height), the options are quite different and quite limited. And for those looking for track that is vaguely close to scale in appearance, the only option is to hand-lay. Even then, the smallest commercial rail that's readily available is Code 40, which is still on the heavy side for Z scale (see below), but better than any of the prefab track alternatives.



Now, if real track looked like this, it wouldn't be a problem.

[GaryHinshaw]

What does that look like numerically?

100,000,000,000,000,000,000?

-1.  1 hundred thousand trillion = 1 * 10² * 10³ * 10¹² = 10¹⁷ = 100,000,000,000,000,000.

That Gotthard pike looks really sweet!  And nice to see some traffic on the Z forum here. 

[Denver Road Doug]

Maybe Micro-Engineering should jump in the game?   They already make c40 flextrack in N, and I bet they could come up with a decent Z turnout.   I'll admit that this has been one of the barriers for Z from my perspective, although honestly I assumed someone had this solved by now and I just wasn't in the loop. (no pun intended) 

Anyway, back to the original question...I've not seen many Z-scale layouts period.   A few modular setups and a couple others over the years at train shows, (one of which was quite large, for Z) but no home layouts on tour that I've seen.  As an aside, that Gotthard setup is quite nice!

Honestly, there aren't really a ton of what I would consider "large" N layouts either.   I think it's a shame that there aren't more "knock your socks off" gianourmous Z and N layouts, but maybe someday.

[DKS]

Maybe Micro-Engineering should jump in the game?   They already make c40 flextrack in N, and I bet they could come up with a decent Z turnout.

I doubt the ROI would make it worthwhile. The Z market is so small either the track would be quite expensive, or it would be a loss for the company to produce. I had looked into manufacturing decent Z scale track a couple of years ago, and the numbers were not encouraging.

[JoeD]

I would like to make longer track, but the process to create a step mold to make 36" or 24" sections is a huge expense.  I'm looking at the modification, seeing what can be done to existing tooling, but it's a long shot. Market is soft, but my argument is that longer sections and factory produced switches may do for the market what our roadbed track did.  Given the choice I would put money in switch development first...

Joe

[ednadolski]

you can do it to scale with no real compression.

The caveat would be, for it to look right then you would also need scale-length trains:  i.e., 100 or more cars (depending on your prototype).  Aside from the cost, is it even feasible to run long trains like that in Z scale?

I had considered building Tehachapi Loop to scale in N.  With its 10-degree curves it would come out to about 7' in diameter (or about 5' in Z scale).  That's not too bad in terms of space, but getting +100 car trains to run reliably in N scale is tall order, esp. on a gradient over 2%.  Even assuming sufficient pulling capacity of the motive power, there is all the work that would have to be done on the rolling stock:  converting to body-mount couplers (most cars today still come with truck-mount), changing plastic pizza-cutter wheels for metal low-profile wheels, lowering the high-riders,  and bringing the cars to proper weight.  I am not familiar enough with Z-scale, but I would suspect that a similar level of work would be needed.

Ed

[rvn2001]

Ed,

The MidweZt HaulerZ have run 100-car trains on our modules. We did it several years ago on a flat layout that measured only 2 feet by 12 feet. We were in a room at a train show with a large N scale club modular layout. They were extremely proud of their 95-car train and challenged us to duplicate it. We needed 6 locos strategically located to prevent clothes-lining on the 10-inch radius curves.  There was only a 6 to 8 inch distance between the lead loco and the caboose. We did this with a mix of manufacturer's products without any modification. The N scale club members took turns coming over to the layout to stare in awe.  It was a lot of fun!

Thom Welsch

[rvn2001]

I forgot to mention that the 100-car count did NOT include the locos or caboose. I've got a picture of it somewhere. I guess I'll have to see if I can find it.

Thom

[ztrack]

Ed there is a long history of Z scale individuals and clubs running 100+ car trains. The longest I saw attempted was over 200+ cars! The weight of the train kept breaking the MTL couplers! AZL designed their couplers to have the strength to pull 100+ car trains. This came at the request of many club members.

Today's new generation of locomotives with coreless motors and traction tires can easily handle 100+ car trains. In some cases, double heading is all that is needed, but I may put a third unit up front just for the extra horsepower.

Here is one fun video from the 2011 NTS. Take a look at the trains in the yard! This should give you some idea about what can be done and run in Z!

/>
Rob

[Nick Lorusso]

Sometimes I wish I still did Zscale. But I like to custom paint and decals are not readily available. But the locos pull great. And some of the Kits that are out there are great.

[ztrack]

Nick I have to agree. The lack of decals has been a hindrance. ROI is not there for manufacturers to come out with decal sheets. We rely heavily on sharing decals and working with those individuals who can custom create decals. But this pool is very limited.

I have resorted to creating my own decals which has turned out to be a lot of fun. I did this for my P&LE GP38-2 and Monongahela GP38-2 project.  I have shared these with those who wanted a set. One gentleman has just finished his set and sent us photos. It is great to see your work finished on someone's units!

One thing nice about doing Z scale decals, you can fit a ton on a single decal sheet!

Rob

[peteski]

I would post a picture of the 100-car train the MidweZt HaulerZ ran but it appears that I'm not allowed to do that.

In answer to your original question, I have a spare bedroom where I plan to build a permanent Z scale layout.

Thom

Everybody is allowed to post photos. Instructions on how to post photos

[VonRyan]

Ed there is a long history of Z scale individuals and clubs running 100+ car trains. The longest I saw attempted was over 200+ cars! The weight of the train kept breaking the MTL couplers! AZL designed their couplers to have the strength to pull 100+ car trains. This came at the request of many club members.

Today's new generation of locomotives with coreless motors and traction tires can easily handle 100+ car trains. In some cases, double heading is all that is needed, but I may put a third unit up front just for the extra horsepower.

Here is one fun video from the 2011 NTS. Take a look at the trains in the yard! This should give you some idea about what can be done and run in Z!

/>
Rob

I know of a 200 car train in N scale being pulled by only one stock Kato F7.
All 200 cars were MT and had their metal floors replaced with resin copies.
Trucks were MT with truck-mounted couplers and the trucks were fine-tuned to be ultra free-rolling.

Needless to say, if some good turnouts are made, I think I might just have to invest a little more time into Z-scale, starting with figuring out how to make some Pennsy steam.
An A5 in Z-scale anyone?


-Cody F.