Best Of Bachmann n 44 ton sound installation project

[u18b]

After this thread..... I'm REALLY looking forward to someone making a powered N scale motorcycle!
 

[rogergperkins]

This project is certainly ambitious and deserves all of the comments of congratulations.  I have two of these locomotives and cannot image undertaking such a project.

Ron, I would settle for an n-scale motor car such as those used by section crews on the railroad.
No sound required to meet my needs.

[robwill84]

Wow, looks like I got an upgrade. I'm in here with some pretty esteemed company, I've got a lot to live up to!. Thanks everybody for your support and encouragement, this is just what I needed to keep me going through the "not so fun" parts of a project like this.

I was stalled out for a while, as it turns out my speaker baffle actually fit a bit lower under the loco than what I was mocking up. I came up with a way to actually integrate the motor into the top of the baffle, reducing the total height by a precious extra millimeter.






Also disaster struck when one of the little motor mounts that fit the motor into the frame mysteriously went missing. Bachmann doesn't list this part in their parts store, but I wrote a note to them explaining what happened, they asked to see a copy of my receipt, and five days later TWO new motor mounts showed up! Guess they wanted to be sure I didn't loose another one. So kudos to Bachmann going out of their way to help.

More updates to come soon, I'm going to do a video of the sound system in action once I get the wiring of the decoder roughed in. Maybe tomorrow. Stay tuned!

[learmoia]

Comment Removed.

[robwill84]

IT'S ALIIIIVE! Looking a little like a Frankenstein monster with all its parts hanging out. Maybe I'll leave the hood off, make it a hot rod 44 tonner...

The Loksound Micro took some fine tuning to get it to play nice with the tiny motor in this little guy. It now runs as slow as any loco I've ever seen. Also no problem with overheating, in fact it barely gets warm to the touch. Only complaint in the motor control department is the BEMF causing some high pitched buzzing from the motor. No amount of fine tuning can get rid of it. Fortunately the sound covers it, and even when running silent its not too annoying.

I'm overall very pleased with the sound, but it seems I got lucky. The Wabco A2 horn, which sounds pretty good and is perfect for this loco, was the only decent horn out of 15. The others ranged from mediocre to terrible, and it wasn't the speaker I'm using, they sounded the same with the factory speaker. Maybe they would sound ok with a larger speaker, I don't know. I would also like a dedicated button for brake squeal, as I can't find a way to get the sound to activate without slamming it from full speed to stop. This seems to be a common issue with these decoders, but I haven't found a way to get it to work properly yet.

I've got some more work to do on the body, and then it is going to be off to the paint shop. Sorry Pennsy fans, its not going to stay in its current livery: http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/ge-switcher_photos/1653_pe-44t-joe_strapac-collection.jpg

[packers#1]

Sweet little build, and the Pacific Electric paint should look hawttttttt

[VonRyan]

Turn off the BEMF and the buzzing should go away and running quality should be better as well.
If you don't use transponding, BEMF is useless.


-Cody F.

[robwill84]

Turn off the BEMF and the buzzing should go away and running quality should be better as well.
If you don't use transponding, BEMF is useless.


-Cody F.

I tried turning the BEMF off completely and it did stop the buzzing, but low speed performance took a big hit. Nothing I tried could prevent jackrabbit start at around five smph. After that it could be dialed down, but I just couldn't get it to start smoothly, even on super low start voltage. Perhaps it has something to do with the super tiny motor. Anyway, I'm willing to live with the buzz if thats the price for the super smooth low speed operation. It's completely inaudible when the sound is on, and even when running silent can only be heard up to a few feet away.

[VonRyan]

I tried turning the BEMF off completely and it did stop the buzzing, but low speed performance took a big hit. Nothing I tried could prevent jackrabbit start at around five smph. After that it could be dialed down, but I just couldn't get it to start smoothly, even on super low start voltage. Perhaps it has something to do with the super tiny motor. Anyway, I'm willing to live with the buzz if thats the price for the super smooth low speed operation. It's completely inaudible when the sound is on, and even when running silent can only be heard up to a few feet away.

It seems odd to me that BEMF would be what helps slow speed performance... I would think it would serve more to inhibit it since the decoder now has to focus on more than just executing commands.
I'm no DCC guru. I turn off BEMF before the engine even gets a real running as it is something that has been recommended to me by fellow members of the N-Trak club I belong to.
I've seen engines with factory fresh, unprogrammed decoders and they didn't do so hot, until they were programmed, which is usually just the 4-digit address and turning off BEMF, after which they did well.


-Cody F.

[robwill84]

It seems odd to me that BEMF would be what helps slow speed performance... I would think it would serve more to inhibit it since the decoder now has to focus on more than just executing commands.
I'm no DCC guru. I turn off BEMF before the engine even gets a real running as it is something that has been recommended to me by fellow members of the N-Trak club I belong to.
I've seen engines with factory fresh, unprogrammed decoders and they didn't do so hot, until they were programmed, which is usually just the 4-digit address and turning off BEMF, after which they did well.


-Cody F.

I'm no DCC expert myself, but I do know that BEMF is useful for boosting slow speed operation and it can also keep a loco at constant speeds up and down grades, among other things.  Consisting can be an issue with BEMF, so maybe the idea of turning it off for club running makes sense, but the general consensus is that it is an enhancement in most situations.

[Hyperion]

It seems odd to me that BEMF would be what helps slow speed performance... I would think it would serve more to inhibit it since the decoder now has to focus on more than just executing commands.
I'm no DCC guru. I turn off BEMF before the engine even gets a real running as it is something that has been recommended to me by fellow members of the N-Trak club I belong to.
I've seen engines with factory fresh, unprogrammed decoders and they didn't do so hot, until they were programmed, which is usually just the 4-digit address and turning off BEMF, after which they did well.


-Cody F.

I'm certainly no DCC expert either, but I believe you're mixing up two different decoder features.

Back EMF is specifically designed to improve low speed performance by improving the constant running speed of a motor, and has absolutely nothing at all to do with DCC transponding.

[peteski]

Yes, Cody does to seem to be confusing totally unrelated DCC decoder features.

While I'll also go as far as saying that certain implementations of BEMF can be a bit rough, in general, BEMF capability is a good feature. In some decoders, certain BEMF parameters (CV registers) do need to be tuned for best performance, in most cases enabling  BEMF greatly improves the running characteristics (especially slow speed running). 

[Ian MacMillan]

Very impressive build and it sounds great to boot. (and Im not a big sound fan)

[VonRyan]

Yes, Cody does to seem to be confusing totally unrelated DCC decoder features.

While I'll also go as far as saying that certain implementations of BEMF can be a bit rough, in general, BEMF capability is a good feature. In some decoders, certain BEMF parameters (CV registers) do need to be tuned for best performance, in most cases enabling  BEMF greatly improves the running characteristics (especially slow speed running).

Regardless of the fact that I've lumped two things together mistakenly, I've found that BEMF is more of a hindrance than a benefit. Of course, all but one of my engines are diesel.
I think I might just have to run a little test with my H10 when I get the chance to see if there is any real noticeable help/hindrance present.


-Cody F.

[sizemore]

Regardless of the fact that I've lumped two things together mistakenly, I've found that BEMF is more of a hindrance than a benefit. Of course, all but one of my engines are diesel.
I think I might just have to run a little test with my H10 when I get the chance to see if there is any real noticeable help/hindrance present.


-Cody F.

I think many folks attribute an overall solution for a problem from trying to many steps at once. Basically someone was troubleshooting some issue, did two or three different things got the solution they were looking for and attributed all the changes as part of the solution when only one of those changes was necessary.

I've adopted the following process, always set CV29 first. Then address the locomotive. Check operation and lights, verify speed step settings. Then start with BEMF. Finish with all the other bells and whistles...start/stop voltage, acc/dec, speed curves etc. GIGO applies here, if I set things in different order I find that sometimes I am over adjusting other variables to compensate for previous changes.

BEMF is probably the single best thing a decoder does for operation when properly configured. Take a look at A/C pulse or pulse modulation on DC current as a primer, it was the "Hot Rodders" way of getting the slow speed operation on conventional DC layouts back in the day. BEMF's attributes are largely the same and can give you a good background on how to configure BEMF.

Humbly Submitted,
The S.