PRR A5 in N Scale

[VonRyan]

I'd love to see you do this kitbash.  Just a note, though, from an operational standpoint...  A5s didn't stray very far from a few key locations.  Philly/Camden and other parts of Jersey seem to be their home range.  This may not matter to you, but it's worth noting in case it does. B6s were a little more widespread, but again, they never strayed far from a major yard.

Philly/Camden is my neck of the woods. (well... I have at least one town between mine and Camden.)

I plan on sitting down at the bench as soon as the 0-4-0 arrives to start hacking away at things.

I also plan on restricting my spending to only stuff that will further the project along, and with the WGH show in Oaks, PA this weekend, It'll mean that some things won't have to wait too long.

[VonRyan]

Ok... so now things are getting interesting...

The 0-4-0 has arrived. I have disassembled it, and 95% of the weight is from the shell, which is basically a solid lump of metal.

Looking at Gregg's two photos of his A5, it would appear that he cut his shell from the Minitrix B6, and only added the K4 cab. This makes sense since the B6's shell is metal, and would allow for the kitbashed A5 to retain weight.

Looking at the K4 shell, the only things useable are the cab and the bell.

From the way the Atlas shell is utilized in keeping the engine together, it would appear that whatever I do will have the utilize a modified version of the original shell.

That means that the cut-up B6 shell has to be retrofitted over-top of the original Atlas shell, albeit the Atlas shell will have to be heavily milled down somehow.

Now, the removal of the cab also means loosing two of the threaded areas where the screws hold the plastic backwall and the motor onto/into the shell.
It appears that it is possible to remove the cab, and yet still retain the lower two motor retaining points, which would keep this project relatively easy, but I am concerned as to how much play that would give the motor/worm in relation to the chassis gearing. 

I could just ditch all of the cab in favor of a new motor, but only if I can find a motor that will accept the original worm-gear. I don't want to have to re-gear the entire drive-mechanism.

Looking closely at the HO brass model, it would certainly appear that the B6 shell offers all the parts necessary to pull this kitbash off. Of course, with mine I will be removing most of the cast-on fine details in favor of brass wire and other detail parts. I even see a potential area where Max's idea of using flat-wrapped guitar-string would be an excellent fit if the diameter is close enough.


With all this being said, tonight's course of action is paint removal from the Atlas shell, cutting of the K4 cab from the K4 shell, and fitting the Bachmann tender to Atlas chassis as it appears to be relatively straightforward.



Here goes nothing....

-Cody F.

[mmagliaro]

Cody,
I have one of those Atlas 0-4-0's.  I thought you realized how the motor and boiler are so integral in that engine.  Sorry I didn't mention
that.

I'll take mine apart and see if I have any ideas for how to get rid of that dependence and mount the motor on its own in there.
That really would make this much simpler and then you'd have the freedom to put the body on any way you like.

Don't kid yourself.  Small engines are much harder than large ones.  Getting enough motor power, pickup, and weight
in a tiny engine is much harder than doing it in large one.  That said, I don't mean to be all gloom and doom here.
Good-running small steam is something N Scale desperately needs, so I'm really glad you are building this.
We have all wrung our hands for years wanting
small diesel switchers like the 44T and S-2.    Well, a really sweet-running 0-4-0 steam switcher is another staple
that is sorely lacking.

 (not as much as the K4.... of course....


          JUST KIDDING...   put the stones and torches away!   

[VonRyan]

Cody,
I have one of those Atlas 0-4-0's.  I thought you realized how the motor and boiler are so integral in that engine.  Sorry I didn't mention
that.

I'll take mine apart and see if I have any ideas for how to get rid of that dependence and mount the motor on its own in there.
That really would make this much simpler and then you'd have the freedom to put the body on any way you like.

Don't kid yourself.  Small engines are much harder than large ones.  Getting enough motor power, pickup, and weight
in a tiny engine is much harder than doing it in large one.  That said, I don't mean to be all gloom and doom here.
Good-running small steam is something N Scale desperately needs, so I'm really glad you are building this.
We have all wrung our hands for years wanting
small diesel switchers like the 44T and S-2.    Well, a really sweet-running 0-4-0 steam switcher is another staple
that is sorely lacking.

I had a feeling that the motor has somewhat integral to the boiler, but the whole assembly overall seems to be reliant on all parts being present.

That being said, it is not like the kitbash has suddenly become impossible.
I have a B6 shell on its way through the mail for the new boiler coverings.
The plan is to retain at least the lower two screw-holes so that the original motor can be used until I determine the best option for a new one.

The original Atlas boiler will get very generous milling for the B6 boiler pieces to fit overtop.
If I do this extremely carefully, I might just end up with a heavier engine than when I began.

All cast on details will, of course, be removed in favor of formed wire and other fabricated bits.

The Bachmann tender is still the order of the day until I source a Minitrix one.

Since I don't weight my rolling stock and remove weights from cars where the weights are not integral, plus fine-tune all my MT trucks, I'm sure the end result (even with the original motor) will be able to easily pull 5 cars and my brass N5c.

With that being said, while it retains the original motor it won't exactly be the smoothest-running engine in my fleet.
However, with the 9V battery tests I've done it might just be a hair more reliable than my brass H10. The Bachmann tender will increase this fact, and allow for DCC.


With your eyes on me and this project, Max, I'm not about to give up any time soon.



-Cody F.

[Chris333]

Put. Motor. In. Tender. 

[chicken45]

That's a pretty small tender, no?

[mmagliaro]

If you were to use the Trix B6 tender (perhaps on a Spectrum small or medium tender chassis for pickup),
that would be a pretty good size, and you could get a decent motor in there, with a drive shaft
to the engine.

I bet a little 8mm coreless (spendy, I know)  would fit in there, and could even have a gearhead on it
to make for an excellent slow drive for a switcher.

--- Max

[Chris333]

And with tender pickups it might even move without your finger. 

[VonRyan]

If you were to use the Trix B6 tender (perhaps on a Spectrum small or medium tender chassis for pickup),
that would be a pretty good size, and you could get a decent motor in there, with a drive shaft
to the engine.

I bet a little 8mm coreless (spendy, I know)  would fit in there, and could even have a gearhead on it
to make for an excellent slow drive for a switcher.

--- Max

I'd do a B4 before I did a B6.
Operating 643 was pure SPF heaven, even though it no longer has a belpaire.

Slow drive would be excellent since my little A5 will see service at a steel mill, but until the mills get rolling and the furnaces up to temp it is stuck plying the N-Trak mainlines so it needs the speed to be able to get out of a tight situation.

And with tender pickups it might even move without your finger. 

Put. Motor. In. Tender. 

As is, the Atlas model has tender pickups and moves without the aid of a finger, even with the juice from a somewhat-used and expired 9v battery.
The only way I would let the model be a tender-drive is if Nstars did it, but for free (of course with me supplying the tender) since I'm lowly member of the proletariat who lives from paycheck to paycheck.
I'm not one for tender driven engines as I'd rather the drivers do their actual jobs, but as the old saying goes... "Free is for Me"




-Cody F.

[Chris333]

There is a motor in here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/ErieRailroadB5060NScale#5192945134492935266
https://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/ErieRailroadB5060NScale#5193062949740831858
That powers the drivers and it adds x4 to the~28:1 gear ratio.

[VonRyan]

There is a motor in here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/ErieRailroadB5060NScale#5192945134492935266
https://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/ErieRailroadB5060NScale#5193062949740831858
That powers the drivers and it adds x4 to the~28:1 gear ratio.

Not a big fan of motor-in-tender-with-driveshaft-to-drivers arrangement if there is room in the boiler, which there is since the Rivarrosi 3-pole dojobby is in cab/boiler, and any new (=better) motor would generally be smaller so it could even mean that I could put crew in the cab.

Quality motors are expensive and gearheads add more to that.
I don't think it's in the cards for me unless someone has a surplus motor they want to sell me.

[mmagliaro]

I am not a fan of driveshafts from tender-to-engine either, but this is very small and extreme case.
Also, don't assume that a new motor would be smaller.  That Atlas stock motor is quite specialized and tiny in that 0-4-0.
The form factor on modern can or coreless motors is to go slim, but not short.  That is, you can get an 8mm x 16mm motor,
but you can't get an 8mm x 10mm unless you start looking at things like pager motors which I really do not recommend.
(too weak, brushes too flimsy).

Nigel Lawton sells an 8mm x 10mm, but I've torture tested a few of those, and they never stood up to more than a 10-20 hours
of running before the brushes were completely burned out of them.

Perhaps.... the Bachmann/Spectrum 2-8-0 motor: It is inexpensive, available, very small, and is 5-pole skew-wound.  It's a darn
good motor.  I guess I need to take my 0-4-0 apart and tinker.  I'll get back to you.

[VonRyan]

The 2-8-0 motor sounds promising, if Bachmann will sell me the part... They've been getting flakey on service lately.
A friend of mine has a sagami motor that might just be a tad longer than the original motor, but smaller in diameter. I just need to determine a) If the work will fit on the shaft -and- b) If he'll sell it to me...

I disassembled and reassembled my 0-4-0, and while it was apart I lubed all the gears.
It's not a bad running little engine, and runs slower forward than it does in reverse.

Of course... How that 3-pole motor will cooperate on DCC is an entirely different story...

[towl1996]

I may have missed this, but why did you choose the Atlas instead of the Bachmann 0-4-0 for this kitbash ?

[VonRyan]

I may have missed this, but why did you choose the Atlas instead of the Bachmann 0-4-0 for this kitbash ?

Because the Bachmann one is nothing more than an overzealous train-set loco, and at least the stock Atlas has some tender pickup as well as driver pickup, and traction tires.
Plus, IIRC, the Bachmann's drivers are much larger, and overall the Bachmann model just appeared to be taller and therefor would more than likely require more modification.

The Atlas 0-4-0 just lends itself more to my needs than the Bachmann.