Author Topic: Cog and rack loco , possible ?  (Read 4385 times)

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Alaska Railroader

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Re: Cog and rack loco , possible ?
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2013, 11:47:10 PM »
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T gauge has always been able to use magnetic energy to move at an incline. DKS is our resident expert though, not me. Here is the video of T at a steep incline, maybe it can be translated to N?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fEjQgHHzJOI

peteski

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Re: Cog and rack loco , possible ?
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2013, 03:38:26 AM »
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If you made the rack from etched steel, it would work with magnets and simulate a real cog and rack setup in appearance.

All the steel photo etched items I've ever encountered are made from stainless steel. It has rather poor magnetic properties.  If the etching could be made from mild steel or soft iron then that would work very well.
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up1950s

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Re: Cog and rack loco , possible ?
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2013, 01:27:30 PM »
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Under tie idea . Easy to get , cost , flexible .



Richie Dost

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Re: Cog and rack loco , possible ?
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2013, 05:50:39 PM »
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Under tie idea . Easy to get , cost , flexible .



Richie, trust me too much attraction can completely stall a loco. The coil shown works great on straight segments, but will not flow around a curve.  Every hardware store sells steel cable by the foot, fairly cheap.  The air gap between the magnet and the steel is critical- too small and the loco stalls, too great and the magna of magna traction disappears.

Peteski sent me some steel rail flex track and the magnet would pull the loco to one rail or the other.  I tested code 100 rail on a steel 2x4 and the loco really struggled. If you use 1/8" steel cable in the center of the cork as you lay track, it goes down just as fast.  I found that the cable coud be offset from the track centerline by one cable diameter without ill effect. Transitions in a switch are no biggie either.

Another thought for a rack could be one side of a plastic coat zipper glued in between the cork halves.

Mmyers05, you are welcome but pictures or videos and a tell all are required!  :ashat:  I was not able to assist an atlas rs3 in the fuel tank or truck frame.

Karin, I can only assume you are referring to dead rail and remote.  Btw the cog on that FP set us huge and is on every track.

nkalanaga

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Re: Cog and rack loco , possible ?
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2013, 02:25:29 AM »
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If you want a working rack, and want to use adhesion on the level sections, the prototypes have two solutions.  One is a tapered rack entrance, where the rack teeth start lower than the pinion and rise to working mesh.  That way the pinion teeth will slide into mesh smoothly.  The other option is a sprung entry, where the end of the rack is hinged and sprung so it can be pushed down by a mismatched pinion, allowing the pinion to slip into alignment.

The tapered version would almost certainly be easier in N scale!

Also, some European rack railways avoid the turnout problem by not having turnouts on the steep grades.  They level the track out on both sides so the train can work through on adhesion.

Another solution is to have the rack higher than the running rails, and two pinions on each locomotive.  Then one can simply gap the racks at the running rails.  That would probably be a little too fiddly for N scale, but no more so than a moveable rack.

Yet a third solution is to do away with the turnouts entirely.  I've seen pictures of this done with two sections of track side-by-side, with the desired one slid into place, and with the two back-to-back on a rotating arrangement, to be flipped to the desired route.  The side-by-side would probably be easier in N scale.
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mmyers05

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Re: Cog and rack loco , possible ?
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2013, 02:34:30 PM »
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Mmyers05, you are welcome but pictures or videos and a tell all are required!  :ashat:  I was not able to assist an atlas rs3 in the fuel tank or truck frame.

I'll try my best! Unfortunately I'm working a temporary job for the next two months and I didn't bring most of my notes along with me (so I'm going partially off memory here). That said, the basic gist was this:

The key to making this whole scheme work, as you mentioned, is to minimize the distance between the magnet(s) and wire/ferrous material; the attraction force that a magnet can provide drops off extremely quickly as this distance increases. The major problem with using a wire (or even multiple wires side-by-side) is its circular profile. Only a very small face of the wire (the top edge specifically) is actually the minimum (ideal) distance from the magnet. As such, only a small edge of the wire actually contributes to increasing the pull force that the magnet can provide. The ideal magnetic attraction surface therefore, is a 'large parallel plate' just below the track (like the steel 2x4 you mentioned).

The revelation that I had (which has been alluded to here) is that this plate does not need to be anywhere near as thick as a steel 2x4 to get the full magnetic benefit. In fact, it can be extremely thin (around ten thousandths of an inch) for the small magnets we are using. Luckily, steel that thin can be cut with tools as simple as robust snip pliers. Furthermore, I estimated that the strip of metal only needs to be as wide as the outermost edge of the ties to achieve something like 98% of the pull strength of 'track on a 2x4.'

That in mind, I designed a few tests to see if my calculations matched reality. Rather than having a locomotive pull cars upgrade, I placed the locomotive (I used a Life-like SW1200) on a ramp, the slope of which I could smoothly and steadily increase, and raised one end until the locomotive slipped. I repeated this procedure ten times at ten different locations along the test track and then calculated the average angle. Assuming that the friction coefficient was constant between the tests, I then calculated how much the normal (traction) force had improved from the baseline (a locomotive with no magnets). Finally I turned that into a "simulated weight added" number (because I'm used to thinking in terms of ounces crammed into a boiler).  I also used the same method to compare different brands of track.

I think I used two of these (one under each truck) for my tests: http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B6301 (but I'd need to check my notes to be sure).


Anyway, the results for different brands of track (using a sheet metal strip the width of the ties) were as follows:

-Atlas Code 80: 1% simulated weight increase; equivalent to adding 0.0129 OZ to the Life-like (conclusion: the track is just too thick for any benefit unfortunately)
-Peco Code 55: 13% simulated weight increase; equivalent to adding 0.192 OZ to the Life-like
-ME Code 55: 53% simulated weight increase; equivalent to adding 0.789 OZ to the Life-like
-Atlas Code 55: 69% simulated weight increase; equivalent to adding 1.034 OZ to the Life-like


As for wire/versus plate:

-The 'sheet metal system' I described was 95% as effective as mounting the track on a steel 2x4.
-The 'single wire system' was ~35% as effective as mounting the track on a steel 2x4.
-A '1/8in centered sheet metal strip' was 60% as effective as mounting the track on a steel 2x4.
-'Refrigerator magnet tape' (the idea came up over on the A-board thread) gave no improvement whatsoever. 


While these increases aren't huge, they were certainly enough to sell me. Hopefully with some tweaking I can make the performance improvements even better. Also, since my Bachmann 2-6-6-2s (the bulk of my roster) have plenty of space beneath the drivers, I have been able to squeeze in as many a four large magnets.

Once again though, the sky is the limit here if you don't want to be bound to commercially available track. If you wanted to hand lay Code 55 rail directly on a steel plate (don't ask me how that would work electrically :) ), I have no doubt that you could run your trains on the ceiling.