Crude oil derailment, fire

[Smike]

Another video, unreal, you can see also see the end of train with its EOTD still blinking towards the end. Very tragic, those people didn't stand a chance to get away when it hit.

 

[ljudice]

I'm still confused about this....

The train was LOADED and pointed DOWNGRADE,  NORTH  towards Canada....   So ALL 5 locomotives and the train headed downhill?  What is this about "breaking away" from the locomotives I hear in the press?

I assume the leader was running to keep the trainline charged for the next crew - not to use the automatic brakes to hold the train, right?  So the only real thing holding the train is handbrakes....

How do you set handbrakes with a one man crew on a 70 car train???????  I thought the procedure is to set hb on the locos and then a couple of cars - then release the brakes - and repeat until the train doesn't budge???

[nkalanaga]

From the most recent reports, the locomotives did uncouple, but as a result of the derailment, not before.  They made it through town and stopped on the other side, while the cars failed to make the curve.

One unit was left running, with the airbrakes applied.  The engineer claimed he had applied "10 or 11" handbrakes, so the train had brakes either way.  However, when the one running engine was turned off, no airbrakes after the pressure leaked off.

Today, Mr. Burkhardt (CEO) said that the railroad's own investigation has lead them to believe the engineer DID NOT set that many hand brakes, as he claimed.  If so, this was either negligence or sheer stupidity, compounded by an inept coverup.   Since the logical place to start applying brakes is with the locos, and they're undamaged, it would be easy to see if the hand brakes were applied.

" Rail CEO Edward Burkhardt - who is also NZ's honorary consul to Chicago, USA - said the engineer has been suspended without pay and was under "police control."
"We think he applied some hand brakes, but the question is, did he apply enough of them?" Burkhardt said. "He said he applied 11 hand brakes. We think that's not true. Initially we believed him, but now we don't." "
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/8903871/Canada-train-crash-death-toll-soars

[trainforfun]

I'm still confused about this....

The train was LOADED and pointed DOWNGRADE,  NORTH  towards Canada....   So ALL 5 locomotives and the train headed downhill?  What is this about "breaking away" from the locomotives I hear in the press?

I assume the leader was running to keep the trainline charged for the next crew - not to use the automatic brakes to hold the train, right?  So the only real thing holding the train is handbrakes....

How do you set handbrakes with a one man crew on a 70 car train???????  I thought the procedure is to set hb on the locos and then a couple of cars - then release the brakes - and repeat until the train doesn't budge???

The train was headed to Maine . It was "tied down" at Nantes about 8 milles before Lac Mégantic , from there it's downgrade to Lac Mégantic , the last city before the border that is not too far after .

[trainforfun]

And just how far exactly do you extend that?

Anywhere an engine is parked? Anywhere a cut of cars is left standing?

Any medium sized town could have a dozen such locations at any given time...

Chris we are in 2013 , a lot of people have problems between their ears , if you know what I mean . Most of the yard that I know have people guarding the place , not all because there are never been as much graffiti as now . But you seldom see tanker cars with graffiti , so in my book these cars are more difficult to access .
You asked where to start and where to stop , an active train with crew on board does not have to be guarded but a train like the one in Nantes / Lac Mégantic should not be left alone .
You go to Costco store before the opening hour and a guard is there in his car watching and make some round every 20 minutes around the building ...
Would you leave your car in the driveway with the motor running because your wife is taking the car in 10 minutes to go to the store ... ( not only for the fuel economy )

[lock4244]

My comment was tongue in cheek, since I know of the CN-CP "rivalry". I was just pointing out Wikipedia's bias toward CN. I couldn't help it with the comment about the worst disaster in history. This photo is what I first thought of and is hilarious (since nobody was killed):

Ah... you need to use the sarcasm tags 

Been spending too much time on CBC and Toronto Start websites reading comments about how there are no regulations for the RR's as the current Prime Minister removed all rules governing RR's. This, though a absolute fact to those incapable of differentiating between their political hated and reality, is actually a fallacy and I've had a hard time keeping up correcting their ignorance.

[lock4244]

I'm still confused about this....

How do you set handbrakes with a one man crew on a 70 car train???????  I thought the procedure is to set hb on the locos and then a couple of cars - then release the brakes - and repeat until the train doesn't budge???

The train was equipped with an Remote Control car (fmr caboose) behind the lead unit. Not sure if they can perform the standing brake test using the RCL, but it isn't out of the realm of possibilty. I'm fairly certain that, had proper procedure been followed, we'd be talking about something else here.

[trainforfun]

Here is an interesthing comment on CRO Facebook page :

Canadian Railway Observations (CRO) wrote: "According to the Canadian Rail Operating Rule Book: RULE 112, whether the locomotives are running or not, the cars on the head end of the train are supposed to be tied down with the hand brakes fully applied. The amount of cars that must be tied down can vary somewhat, but the employee is required to test the efficiency of the tie down by trying to push/pull the consist with the locomotives. If the initial parameters are not met and it moves the train, more cars are to be tied down. Whether this was done or not has not come out. The engineer insisted he applied 11 handbrakes but the company doesnot believe and he has been layed off without pay. As well, all the engines would have had their handbrakes fully applied."

[nkalanaga]

MY 1967 copy of the "Consolidated Code", used by most Northwest railroads, goes further, in that any parked train had to be secured by handbrakes AND the airbrakes had to be released.  If the train wouldn't stay, use more handbrakes.  No fair cheating!

Of course, that was 46 years ago, and in a different country, so may not apply today or even then in Canada.

At least one news site has said their was a conductor, but no one else has mentioned him.  So whether it was a one man crew could be in doubt.  On ther other hand, if there WAS a second crew member, one would think he would have been mentioned before now.

Ljudice:  Years ago, mountain railroads had "tons per working brake" charts.  It didn't matter if your loco could pull the train UP the hill, you couldn't take more tons DOWN than number of cars with working brakes allowed.  Something like that would work for handbrakes.  The crew should know the weight of the train, the timetable or special instructions should show the grades, and use a table to calculate how many handbrakes to set.  Whether any road does this I have no idea.

[Scottl]

Just catching up on this.  A terrible tragedy and I'm sure this will have some implications for all the oil travelling the rails these days.  There are thousands of communities just like Lac Megantic where oil passes through every day.  Let's hope it is a sad anomaly and similar incidents will not occur.

[ljudice]

Over on Trainorders some people pretty familiar with MMA say the one man crew on these trains was common place...

Also, I hadn't realized it, but I guess this is the old CP /  CP of Maine routing across northern Maine and I guess a fairly well used
line (although dark territory).

Anyone have info on how busy this RR was?

- Lou

[lock4244]

Not very well versed on the MMA, either, but this was not a busy line. It was dying during CP's last years, it was still dying when Iron Roads operated it, and it was dying under MMA until the crude trains brought much needed revenue. I will venture a guess at 1-2 freights each way per day. The oil would not be regular, as they move over the CP Belleville Sub east of Toronto with no particular frequency beyond as needed/as they arrive from North Dakota, so one per day plus crude as required would be more correct.

[sharriso]

    From an engineer's point of view this article gives some insight into what happened.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/12/complex-latticework-of-errors-that-caused-lac-megantic-train-disaster-have-just-begun-to-emerge/

    Having worked on the Space Shuttle and Space Station for 35 years, the article's graphic "The Night a Train Destroyed a Town" (National Post) is telling.


    Shawn and Sally Harrison
    - Modeling 1850s B&O

[RockGp40]

C102 anybody? Skate? As much of an advocate of railroads as I like to think I am, somthing isn't adding up here.  At my outift, if we leave a train unattended on the main for an extended period of time, that train is C102'd/handbraked and skated to the downhill side. Now we don't have the grades like this train seemed to have been on, but nothing beats a skate properly used in my experience.

[Philip H]

C102 anybody? Skate? As much of an advocate of railroads as I like to think I am, somthing isn't adding up here.  At my outift, if we leave a train unattended on the main for an extended period of time, that train is C102'd/handbraked and skated to the downhill side. Now we don't have the grades like this train seemed to have been on, but nothing beats a skate properly used in my experience.

Yeah, this smells fishy the more we know.