Crude oil derailment, fire

[DKS]

A fairly comprehensive report of what's known so far, plus a heart-stopping HD video of the fire--the sound alone is chilling.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/07/09/transportation-safety-board-says-its-too-early-to-say-who-was-responsible-for-trains-security/

[Dave Schneider]

It was interesting to note that the MM&A does indeed use a one person crew. I have always wondered about the safety aspects of the one person crew. I was wondering whether people with actual train handling experience could comment on how a train is "tied down" and whether a different technique is employed for one person crews.

I have read in other venues that one technique is to engage the hand brakes on "a suitable" number of cars, release the air brakes to see if it holds the train, and then apply more hand brakes if needed before charging the air system again. In other words, the hand brakes are the primary method of holding the train, and the air brakes are the secondary. Would a portable derail also be employed? Regardless of whether the locomotive was shut down by the fire department, it seems like this wouldn't have happened if the hand brakes had been applied to enough cars (assuming they hadn't been tampered with later).

Finally, how would a one man crew "restart" the train the next day? It seems dangerous to have one person releasing hand brakes (assuming they were used) without someone in the locomotive cab.

Best wishes, Dave

[nkalanaga]

Dave:  The only safe way I can think of to release the handbrakes with no one in the cab would be a remote control locomotive. 

The other best way would be to block the wheels, so the train can't roll, but even then someone would have to remove the blocks.  If they're at the back of the train they could be left, but the next train would derail hitting them...

[OldEastRR]

Why would the loco be left running to HOLD the brakes? If the brakes release when the train line has higher pressure than the reservoirs, then any kind of leakage from the pressurizing tank in the loco to the train line would build up pressure in the line (since the compressors would come on automatically to recharge the pressure tank if it fell below a certain pressure) slowly until the brakes released. And with 73 full tank cars on a 1.2% grade, with RB bearing axles, how much strain would that unbraked weight put on a coupler?

[lock4244]

IMO, I think that either the crewman that went off duty 1) did not set any/sufficient handbrakes or 2) he did and persons unknown released them. The locomotive was only keeping the trainline charged and I'm fairly confident that was only intended as a convenience for the next crew to get the train going quickly without waiting to pump up the brakes. Standing equipment must be secured with the application of sufficient handbrakes as per the rulebook. If the air brakes were intended as the only means of holding the train, someone farked up, big time.

Personally (based on available info), I do not think that the use of a one man crew is a cause here. You will likely see that the MMA did noting against the rules. Will this result in new rules for handling crude and ethanol trains? I think so.

[cv_acr]

Dave:  The only safe way I can think of to release the handbrakes with no one in the cab would be a remote control locomotive. 

And that is apparently how MMA operates. 1-man crews with beltpacks, and RCL equipment built into a former caboose that's spliced in the consist.

http://www.railpictures.ca/?attachment_id=9144

[lock4244]

If you want to see disasters, look up CN on Wikipedia, it is not to good.

People that have an axe to grind with CN, many opposed to its privatization, purchase of BCOL, anit-American sentiment, etc point to CN's safety record as validation of their hate. Never knew of a RR that didn't have derailments. I've read comments on the MMA disaster on the CBC website (big shock there being anti-capitalist) blaming the wreck on cuts by Hunter Harrison. Anti-CN and Hunter go hand in hand, and that is now starting to ferment on CP as well. Look at any railroad and you'll find a litany of derailments and spills, accidents and mishaps, so pointing to a list posted by pissed off individuals as proof that CN is a disaster is BS.

[lock4244]

And that is apparently how MMA operates. 1-man crews with beltpacks, and RCL equipment built into a former caboose that's spliced in the consist.

http://www.railpictures.ca/?attachment_id=9144

Yup, and Lac Megantic has nothing to do with RCL operation.

[cv_acr]

Not really. Since the train was parked and tied down (and it's been plastered about that the engine was completely turned off after the initial fire) all this stuff about RCL, one-man crews, etc. is not particularly relevant to what happened.

I think the main question here is going to be about handbrakes.

[lock4244]

Not really. Since the train was parked and tied down (and it's been plastered about that the engine was completely turned off after the initial fire) all this stuff about RCL, one-man crews, etc. is not particularly relevant to what happened.

I think the main question here is going to be about handbrakes.

I'm not sure if your referring to my posts or not, but if so, that has been my point here... RCL, one man crews, shutting down locomotive are all irrelevant - this all boils down to hand brakes.

IMO, I think that either the crewman that went off duty 1) did not set any/sufficient handbrakes or 2) he did and persons unknown released them. The locomotive was only keeping the trainline charged and I'm fairly confident that was only intended as a convenience for the next crew to get the train going quickly without waiting to pump up the brakes. Standing equipment must be secured with the application of sufficient handbrakes as per the rulebook. If the air brakes were intended as the only means of holding the train, someone farked up, big time.

Personally (based on available info), I do not think that the use of a one man crew is a cause here. You will likely see that the MMA did noting against the rules. Will this result in new rules for handling crude and ethanol trains? I think so.

[Dave Schneider]

Not really. Since the train was parked and tied down (and it's been plastered about that the engine was completely turned off after the initial fire) all this stuff about RCL, one-man crews, etc. is not particularly relevant to what happened.

I think the main question here is going to be about handbrakes.

Fair point Chris, and I agree completely about the handbrakes. The only reason I had for bringing up the one man crew issue is to question whether there are different procedures involved that could have contributed to the handbrakes not being sufficient to hold the train. This is pertinent in regards to whether a test is routinely performed to insure that the handbrakes would hold, and how that is conducted by one person. I am sure this will all be investigated thoroughly.

On a different topic, I am saddened to read some of the recent statements from Mr. Burkhardt. I had always admired what he did with the Wisconsin Central, and their initial press release seemed appropriate. I hope that he rises to the occasion during this crisis for the sake of all those affected by this tragedy.

Best wishes, Dave

[DKS]

It's very questionable whether the hand brakes were properly applied on this train. As a matter of fact I'll say they weren't, or we wouldn't have had this incident.

Burkhardt, at his news conference: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/10/us-train-missing-idUSBRE9690HJ20130710

[cv_acr]

I'm not sure if your referring to my posts or not, but if so, that has been my point here... RCL, one man crews, shutting down locomotive are all irrelevant - this all boils down to hand brakes.

Sorry Mike, I misread that last post of yours as sarcastic. My bad. I've seen enough railing against MMA's RCL/one-man crew operations on other fora (facebook and news article comment sections aren't always known for stimulating intelligent conversation), and while there could be something to that it really has nothing to do with what happened.

[pjm20]

People that have an axe to grind with CN,

My comment was tongue in cheek, since I know of the CN-CP "rivalry". I was just pointing out Wikipedia's bias toward CN. I couldn't help it with the comment about the worst disaster in history. This photo is what I first thought of and is hilarious (since nobody was killed):

[h2w]

question were the locomotives still tied to the train and the whole train rolled away or some how did the engines uncouple from the train
 thanks
Mark K