Should the MTL and TW Trailer-Train flats have white decks?

[wcfn100]

The is something I've been trying to figure out for a while and with the TW cars imminent, it's time to reach out to a larger base.

Here's a later number series of the MTL car.

http://freight.railfan.ca/ttx/ttax972219.jpg

I'm pretty comfortable because of the '68 build date that the MTL cars should have a white deck (not sure about the yellow safety stuff).

This 85' car is clearly white as well.

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ttx472145&o=ttx

But shots of other cars is not so clear.  Something like this:

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ttx473930&o=ttx

Or a better shot of a container flat.

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ttx474171&o=ttx

To make things worse, some photos look like they've been touched up to include a white deck like this one:

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ttx477590&o=ttx

You can't see any of the deck details like this one made at the same time and doesn't look to have a white deck:

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ttx477651&o=ttx

Anyways, has anyone ever figured out a pattern, year, number series or reporting mark series to whether the flat had a white deck or not?

Jason

[Dave Schneider]

Jason,

Is it possible that the white decks are just odd reflection and/or odd photo exposure? That would explain the lack of a coherent pattern. It is hard to understand why they would paint the decks white, unless it was some sort of non-skid coating? Just a thought, as I don't have a stake in this one way or the other.

Best wishes, Dave

[wcfn100]

unless it was some sort of non-skid coating?

^

James Costello did a great article on the Model160 site  that talks a bit about it.   James uses the word "all" in regards to the white deck, but I'm not sure what that is supposed to include because I can find shots of 85' cars to the contrary.


Jason

[lock4244]

To make things worse, some photos look like they've been touched up to include a white deck like this one:

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ttx477590&o=ttx

You can't see any of the deck details like this one made at the same time and doesn't look to have a white deck:

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ttx477651&o=ttx

Anyways, has anyone ever figured out a pattern, year, number series or reporting mark series to whether the flat had a white deck or not?

Jason

These two be snow, says I. There is clearly snow on the ground.

[Mark5]

Interesting. The Trainworx brown 85' footer with a 1959 build has a brown deck. Maybe that was the as built scheme in 1959? Or did they get it wrong?

The color on the yellow scheme is described as off-white in this thread:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=18129.msg159095#msg159095

Mark

[wcfn100]

These two be snow, says I. There is clearly snow on the ground.

Well duh on the snow for that first one, not sure how I missed that.  That second was snow, but is still unclear.

Jason

[lock4244]

Second one I would say is also snow 100%... just a very light dusting on a brown deck. Indicative of snow blowing onto the car, likely off a roof or something.

[bbussey]

Are you sure your photos of cars "without" white decks are not just filthy?  Any builder's photo I've seen of brown TT TOFCs have had the white (actually off-white) decks, and that practice was continued with the migration to the yellow scheme.

Both Atlas and Trainworx more often than not work from photos to validate decos, so I would bet the TOFC releases of those companies and BLMA are accurate representations rather than the reverse.

[cv_acr]

These two be snow, says I. There is clearly snow on the ground.

I don't know about that. On the ground, yes. On the car, not so much. There's nothing on the hitches and risers, or any other flat surfaces, and the entire deck is a uniform colour. Also in both cases the colour of the hinged deck plates match the deck colour exactly (either dark or light). Since those are vertical, that's definitely not snow contributing to that.

This one definitely has a little bit of snow on it, and the deck on this one is dark.
http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ttx473930&o=ttx

On the other hand, is it possible that some of the photos were simply taken _before_ the non-skid paint was applied?

Are you sure your photos of cars "without" white decks are not just filthy?  Any builder's photo I've seen of brown TT TOFCs have had the white (actually off-white) decks, and that practice was continued with the migration to the yellow scheme.

All of the photos above _are_ Builder's photos at the Pullman-Standard factory.

[lock4244]

Look along the far edge of the deck and the deck on the same side at the hump over the hitch on TTX 477590... if that was painted on, they did a Friday at 3:55PM job.

[lock4244]

The 'white' deck some see can also be caused by a combination of sunlight and overexposure. Looking at the example below, one my determine the deck is painted white, but look at the foreground of the car and the part of the deck in shadow is not white. If it is, then the top of the middle hitch is also white, which we know in all likelihood to not be the case. I think if the deck was white, it'd stand out more than it does in the shadows. The 'Trailer Train' on the side of the car is painted white and even in shadow it stands out much more than the shadowed part of the deck.

There is also evidence of snow on the ground.

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=ttx477515&o=ttx

[wcfn100]

Are you sure your photos of cars "without" white decks are not just filthy?  Any builder's photo I've seen of brown TT TOFCs have had the white (actually off-white) decks, and that practice was continued with the migration to the yellow scheme.

Both Atlas and Trainworx more often than not work from photos to validate decos, so I would bet the TOFC releases of those companies and BLMA are accurate representations rather than the reverse.

So which is it?   


Jason

[nkalanaga]

If they are all painted white, I'd suspect that they didn't stay clean long in the era of circus loading, and almost certainly didn't get washed.  Oil from the tractors, rubber from the tires, exhaust from the locos, dirt from everywhere, probably some rust, and pretty soon they'd be a grungy gray-brown.  Probably lighter than if the car started brown, but still a "dirty freight car" color.

Assuming they were painted, was it just white paint, or was it paint with sand or other non-skid additive?  If so, dirt would stick even faster.

[lock4244]

If they are all painted white, I'd suspect that they didn't stay clean long in the era of circus loading, and almost certainly didn't get washed.  Oil from the tractors, rubber from the tires, exhaust from the locos, dirt from everywhere, probably some rust, and pretty soon they'd be a grungy gray-brown.  Probably lighter than if the car started brown, but still a "dirty freight car" color.

Assuming they were painted, was it just white paint, or was it paint with sand or other non-skid additive?  If so, dirt would stick even faster.

One would expect an uneven distribution of dirty on the deck, with the treadways being the heaviest and the center areas less so.

[Robbman]

Cars in the original T.T.X. scheme as painted didn't have white decks as delivered, but they could have been painted later (of course, they most likely got the current scheme of the time as well)  Don't know the exact year, but very shortly after the Trailer Train brown scheme was introduced, they painted the decks white (they were white so drivers could see the decks better at night, and yes, it was anti-skid compound.  it was also applied to the risers (wood or steel))... container only cars were an exception, but even some of those got white decks as shops just followed a generic painting diagram.  The P-S cars in the builders photos haven't had the white applied... I have seen hundreds of 'incomplete' P-S builders photos, so this isn't rare.  Towards the end of the 70s, with the transition away from circus loading, decks were no longer cleaned regularly, and with the shopping of cars in the 80s, no longer painted white.