Early BN coal operations in the west?

[BCOL 747]

I need a little help from the early BN guys. One of my modeling themes is the Burlington Northern circa 1974 in the Pacific Northwest and I am looking at including a unit coal train on the layout. I have a couple of questions.

First, did they run unit coal trains west from Wyoming and Montana in 1974?

If they did, what type of open hoppers would they have been using? 90 ton ribbed? Would they be a mix of BN, GN, NP, SP&S and CB&Q paint schemes?

Who produces decent N scale models, Should I be using the Atlas 90 coal hoppers?
 
Any suggestions or photo evidence would be great appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris

[Ike the BN Freak]

I'm sure they did.  Just couldn't find any photos to prove it in any of my books.

As for the cars, I'd use Atlas 90 tons and Trainworx quads.  Also a few 70 ton cars from Bluford would add a good mix to the train.

For the trainworx cars, I'd skip the BN logo over 3 lines scheme, believe its called the post 90s scheme at Trainworx.

I haven't seen too many SP&S cars in any coal trains, but not saying they don't exist.


I'll spend some time later today looking for a pic of a train, if I get some time.

[Denver Road Doug]

According to some quick research, the answer is no.*

From the book Burlington Northern Railroad: Coal Hauler ...

After discussing the early traffic patterns east and south out of the PRB the book states "A new directional twist took place on January 5, 1980.  On that date, the first full train carrying coal to the Pacific Northwest arrived at Castle, Oregon."

*However, I seem to recall the the D&RGW ran unit trains into Oregon/Washington, so they may have routed over BN lines at some point.

[Hyperion]

According to some quick research, the answer is no.*

From the book Burlington Northern Railroad: Coal Hauler ...

After discussing the early traffic patterns east and south out of the PRB the book states "A new directional twist took place on January 5, 1980.  On that date, the first full train carrying coal to the Pacific Northwest arrived at Castle, Oregon."

*However, I seem to recall the the D&RGW ran unit trains into Oregon/Washington, so they may have routed over BN lines at some point.

Hard to tell from the context if that quote was referring to just PRB coal or coal in general.  It sure seems to say coal, period, but while I wouldn't have expected PRB coal to get there until 1980-ish, surely the PNW got coal from somewhere prior to 1980?

[Denver Road Doug]

Hard to tell from the context if that quote was referring to just PRB coal or coal in general.  It sure seems to say coal, period, but while I wouldn't have expected PRB coal to get there until 1980-ish, surely the PNW got coal from somewhere prior to 1980?

  Not hard to tell at all.   Original question is asking about PRB coal, and I mentioned in the setup to the quote that it was discussing traffic patterns out of the PRB.   

Then I went on to mention D&RGW operations prior to that.   I do not believe that the Rio Grande ever pulled coal out of the PRB so I expect it is Colorado coal.  But yes, they did get coal from somewhere, although my research suggests that the extreme coastal areas relied more on oil than coal for heating, etc.   Coal was more of an "inland thing", at least early on.

[BCOL 747]

Thanks for the input gentleman. Much appreciated!
 
Doug, I figured that was the case with PRB coal but I did read somewhere that BN or their predecessors NP and GN hauled unit trains of coal out of Montana to the West Coast. Does this make sense?

Basically what I am looking to do is add a little variety other than forest products to 1974 BN PNW operations on the layout.

Thanks,
Chris

[sirenwerks]

Also a few 70 ton cars from Bluford would add a good mix to the train.

If you're talking about the former GN cars, then the Bluford model is wrong.  The GN cars had a different number of panels.

[Ike the BN Freak]

If you're talking about the former GN cars, then the Bluford model is wrong.  The GN cars had a different number of panels.

Can always be a stand-in, how does the old MDC 70 ton hopper fit in?

[sirenwerks]

Can always be a stand-in, how does the old MDC 70 ton hopper fit in?

Again, working from memory here, but I think the rib side MDC cars match a prototype owned by the CB&Q (or was it GN) and I know the offset side cars are a definite match for Q hoppers.  Not sure if they got repainted.  I wish Athearn would fire up those hopper molds again.  I'd like some CB&Q offset cars in Chinese red.

Going back to the original post, there was a lot of coal in the PNW west of PRB.  GN, NP, SP&S, and UP steam were fired with it and the many smelters ran off of it too, not to mention a lot of other industries.

Don't want to cause any topic drift here, but were the Trainworx 100T quad used by GN in the PNW?  Not sure why, but I have a feeling they were for unit trains running out of the Dakotas and stayed in the Midwest.

[mplsjct]

If you're talking about the former GN cars, then the Bluford model is wrong.  The GN cars had a different number of panels.

Actually the GN cars Bluford sells were purchased second hand from DT & I (not positive on the ex railroad), which makes them accurate as far as number of panels.

The bulk of the cars GN had are not a match for the Bluford hoppers, as noted, because of the number of panels.

The MDC/Athearn cars are really close, if not totally accurate for the black CB&Q scheme, not close for the GN, though.

The Trainworx GN quads were originally assigned to unit service between North Dakota and Minnesota, after the merger, it looks as though the quads went pretty much everywhere.

Another car you might want to consider is the NP 100 ton car MicroTrains released in January 2012.

[Specter3]

Southern Railway ran the first unit trains of coal of any railroad, from its new Pride, AL transload facility in 1977 or so.

[Bob Bufkin]

Ah, a lot of railroads were running coal trains long before that.  Might not have called them unit trains but coal trains non the less.

[Bluford Craig]

Sorry Sirenwerks, Mplsjct is correct, the 14-panel hoppers we did in GN and BN paint were 2nd hand cars purchased from Detroit Toledo & Ironton. The 15-panel cars you are thinking of are GN PS-3s. As for the offset hoppers, CB&Q and their subsidiary C&S had quite a few and many were still well within their service life in the era you model (mostly in Chinese red or black by that time.) It doesn't appear that any of the CB&Q 3-bay offset side cars were ever repainted for BN.

Regarding the first unit coal train comment, Nickel Plate Road began unit train service in 1964 and I don't believe they were the first ones either.

Craig
www.bluford-shops.com

[sirenwerks]

Sorry Sirenwerks, Mplsjct is correct, the 14-panel hoppers we did in GN and BN paint were 2nd hand cars purchased from Detroit Toledo & Ironton. The 15-panel cars you are thinking of are GN PS-3s. As for the offset hoppers, CB&Q and their subsidiary C&S had quite a few and many were still well within their service life in the era you model (mostly in Chinese red or black by that time.) It doesn't appear that any of the CB&Q 3-bay offset side cars were ever repainted for BN.

See what I get when I pack my books up?  Yes, I was thinking of the PS3s (you should do them in the arrival scheme) and had blocked out of my head your BN and late scheme GN cars.  I keep away from the late scheme stuff and big sky blue.  And I have your Chinese red CB&Q cars, but still want Athearn to do more black rib siders for the Q.

[Denver Road Doug]

Southern Railway ran the first unit trains of coal of any railroad, from its new Pride, AL transload facility in 1977 or so.

Do you mean 1967 maybe?

BN began running unit trains out of the PRB in 1972.   I would say unit coal trains predated that by 20 years, but just a guess.   Pretty sure Rio Grande was running unit coal trains in the 60's.

Anyway, I haven't had much luck determining if BN was running unit coal trains from non-PRB mines to the PNW in the early 70's.  I think the discussion about the rolling stock is right on....it would be triple hoppers or quads of some  type.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1819708 as an example...a few years later but still in the realm of plausibility.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2489094