PRR Senator consist help

[CodyO]

Thanks bob and Bryan for the quick and helpful answers!

Hey Bryan I wouldn't have to do this at all if you made the cars 
Or maybe just the sides 

[eric220]

Hey Bryan I wouldn't have to do this at all if you made the cars 

The Congo/Senator aren't really on my radar, but if someone did make the correct cars, I'd be all over them in a heartbeat.

[bbussey]

This stuff ain't cheap to do, even from a modeling-only (rather than marketing-for-profit) standpoint.  I started working on the New Haven diner sides when the MTL parlor was announced (or rather, when I was unofficially informed about it) about three years ago, and there are countless man-hours invested in the design even if there are no steel tooling costs involved.  Just as there are countless man-hours required for designing the patterns for etched sides.  Hey, I wish it they could be designed more quickly and less expensively too, as I have a ton of stuff I want that never will be made commercially.  But it takes time, especially when it's not the day job.

I don't see any easy way to do the Budd cars totally from scratch.  Any of the roofs necessitate a slide mold to be done properly because of the fluting.  That's the killer, so it means cannibalization of existing models to get the roof.  The only Budd roofs tooled properly are the ones in the Kato Zephyr, Broadway and Capitan consists.  The Con-Cor and early Kato cars cheated on the roof flutes.  What I'm doing for my Senator, when I get around to it, is:  milling .010" off the sides of the Kato BL "Inn" car from the windowband down (under the letterboard flutes), and between the door and blind-end corner post; removing the windowband; and etching brass insets.  The Kato core for the diner and café car will require milling from corner post to corner post, and the obs will require surgery to the blind-end to accommodate a wrap-around etching as well as a donor roof cap from the Kato business car.  That's a lot of work even after the design phase, and I've got other varnish I want to complete first.  It also requires acquiring quantities of "Inn" cars, which is not the easiest task since Kato never imported BL parts.  I'm planning on a nine-car consist -- coach (4), diner, parlor (2), café, obs -- which requires nine donor cars.  I've got four.  I could mill one car and then cast it in resin, but then approximately .040" would be lost from the length of the car in mold and resin shrinkage.  I still might go that route, since .040" won't be noticeable in a moving consist, but I haven't decided as of yet.  Too many projects ahead of it, both ESM-related and personal-preferences.  And if the Kato rumors are true and another BL is on the horizon, then maybe it will be easier to get donor "Inn" bodies/parts down the road and it makes sense to wait and see if that comes to fruition.

The other parts would be no more difficult to do than any lightweight smoothside PS or ACF car.  But it still takes time to design them.

[OldEastRR]

 

It also requires acquiring quantities of "Inn" cars, which is not the easiest task since Kato never imported BL parts

Kato does have the 4-car add-on kits which contain 2 "inn" series cars each.

[bbussey]

True.  But that means buying two extra cars that are unneeded and difficult to unload, so it's not an efficient way of collecting the "Inn" cars.

[wcfn100]

True.  But that means buying two extra cars that are unneeded and difficult to unload, so it's not an efficient way of collecting the "Inn" cars.

With so many alleged PRR modelers I would think/hope you could unload two Kato passenger cars for $8.50 a piece.  That would get you back to at least retail on the two 'Inn' cars'.

Jason

[Sokramiketes]

That's a CB&Q prototype.  Not accurate for any Pennsy Budd prototypes unless you replace the entire side.  Also, the sleeper roof (no longer available) is a better starting point than the coach roof.

That would mean securing the "Inn" series body, which unfortunately never was released as individual parts.  The tooling is better also on the consist varnish than on the older single cars.

Don't forget the CB&Q coach is a prewar Budd car and shorter in length.  Roof rib pattern was also different on the early cars.

[CodyO]

This project may have been made a lot easier

https://www.shapeways.com/model/1740383/1-160-congressional-observ-car-generic.html?materialId=61

Talking to him about making the other 4 cars

Though the $58 has a jaw dropping affect, A set of car sides and a Kato body is $40

[bbussey]

While it is not the path I will be taking, $58 is not cost-prohibitive.  The Kato body, car sides of choice, and the labor would exceed $58.  But with the FUD limitations notwithstanding ... flush window glass, car weight and electrical power are an issue.  I'm going to fit etched car sides into milled cavities of the Kato BL "Inn" cars, use the standard glass for flush windows, and use the end of the business car roof for the obs, which leaves the model with all of the benefits of a standard Kato car. 

[CodyO]

I would use Kato Trucks would this so add lights would be possible

As for the windows you got me on that but I think just having window glazing behind it they could pass the 3 foot rule

[jmlaboda]

As for the windows you got me on that but I think just having window glazing behind it they could pass the 3 foot rule

So there is window glass that will work on this car?  That is good too know... a streamline car just does not look right without this, at least for me... and for me it is still noticeable.

[Angus Shops]

I've modified a number do Con Cor Budds into CPR types with completely different window arrangements. If the new windows are the same size as the old windows it's easy enough to cut up the window inserts as needed (individual windows in most cases) and reuse them to maintain the flush window look. It's a bit of mess on the inside, but you can't tell from the outside. On the coaches, which on CP had unusually long windows, I cut individual windows from clear styrene ad inserted them into the window openings flush to the exterior. This is a bit of extra work; it's a lot easier if you can reuse the old window inserts.

Works with Con Cor cars, I imagine it'll work with Kato cars as well.

Geoff

[peteski]

If etched brass sides are used then the window "glass" could be installed to be right behind the brass side (so inset by about only 0.010"). That is almost flush.

[Alwyn Cutmore]

Have a look at this link.
 http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/consists2.htm
or
http://pennsyrr.com/


Regards

Al

[OldEastRR]

I'm not sure etched brass sides would simulate the Budd fluting as done on the KATO, ConCor, etc, cars. As lines etched into metal they would be rather shallow and the edges square, not rounded. You could buy one fluted brass side to see if it is what you're looking for.