PRR Senator consist help

[CodyO]

Ok now that I`m home from work and can actually sit and study this all for a bit here`s my thoughts

The problem that its not on the NEC doesn`t really bug me, my line is fake but I like passenger trains so I`ll toss it in the project folder, since at some point in the next year I`ll be layout-less and in the air force the project folder is something I like to toss big time consuming projects into.

Had I looked at the document a little longer I would have saw P85H but instead I saw P85 and moved on and ASSUMED 

As of Sunday September 1954 the Senator Consist was:
MS-60
MS-60(X)
P-70
P-85H
P-85H
Coffee Shop tavern
P-85H
Diner
PL-29 Chair 1 DR
PL-29 Chair 1 DR
PL-29 Chair 1 DR
PL OBS

So 12 cars
MS-60`s I would need from Hell gate
P-70 could be an old Model power
But the rest of the train would cost over $200 for sides alone, pricey....

I see the point of using Con-Cor passenger cars, they would be ok stand ins due to proper paint but don`t look anything close to the actually PRR cars. I think if I was to go forward with this project I would build the cars using the sides from union station and Kato cars.
Kato cars due to truck pickups for lighting the cars
Thanks for the help guys

[OldEastRR]

I was looking at possible rebuild material for the Congressional a while back when I had a pennsy layout, and there isn't much. The Kato stuff is tempting but it has fully-fluted sides, which means the PRR maroon stripe down the letterboards will look a bit odd. The ConCor fluted cars have blank sides above the windows (so ConCor could stick any length railroad name they wanted there) and are more prototypical. But you could replace the Kato letterboards with plain styrene if you were up to it (it's not fun, trust me).
Most important about ConCor  is the parlor car being very very close to looks and window arrangement of both the PRR Drawing room-Parlor and Lounge-Coach. Moving the existing or making a new strip of window openings is not that hard if you're careful.
As for lighting, you could stick ConCor shells on Kato frames and trucks, though it might take a little re-working of the pieces to  do so.  Depending on what parts are available from both companies you might be able to make a working model without having to cannibalize a whole Kato car. I sacrificed a BL 10-6 by cutting off the sides and attaching an ESM car side, which happened to be the same thickness as the Kato side. Brass and acrylic car sides are nice, but I wanted the Pullman seamed roof and detailed car ends. Plus the Kato lighting system and excellent-rolling trucks.
As I said, I did this research back when I had a PRR layout but never built the consist. However, I realize now that I'm building a NH layout I may still wind up building the Senator to run, but with NH power.

[eric220]

As of Sunday September 1954 the Senator Consist was:
MS-60
MS-60(X)
P-70
P-85H
P-85H
Coffee Shop tavern
P-85H
Diner
PL-29 Chair 1 DR
PL-29 Chair 1 DR
PL-29 Chair 1 DR
PL OBS

Actually, according to Keystone Crossings, it was:

MS-60
P-70
P-70
P-85
P-85
P-85
P-85
P-85
P-85
D-85ed (Coffee/Tavern)
P-85
P-85
D-85ad (Diner)
PP-85
PP-85
PP-85
POC-85C

For 17 Cars.

Keep in mind, the codes used on the makeup list are not the same as the actual car designations.  For instance, MS-60 is a placeholder of sorts, not an actual car.  That could be a B60 or an X29.  Similarly the "PL 29 Chair 1 DR" is really a PP85.

I would model the weekday/Saturday train without the P70's.  The P70's only ran twice a week, and I think they would detract from the cohesiveness of the overall train.  Then you also get a second MS-60.

I see the point of using Con-Cor passenger cars, they would be ok stand ins due to proper paint but don`t look anything close to the actually PRR cars. I think if I was to go forward with this project I would build the cars using the sides from union station and Kato cars.
Kato cars due to truck pickups for lighting the cars

The Con Cor Standard Coach is actually pretty close to the P85 (one window is the wrong size and the spacing at the other end is slightly off), and the Parlor Car is not too far off the PP85 (just an extra long window on the drawing room end).  Given that those two cars make up 11 of the 16 or 17 cars, I'd go that route and call it close enough.  They're a heck of a lot closer to the prototype cars than the MicroTrains-not-quite-P70's you're using.     Maybe see if the bodies and interiors could be swapped onto Kato floors and trucks.  Starting there and then building the tavern, diner, and obs would be a much more manageable project.  Also, you could start there, get the train up and running, and swap out coaches and parlors one by one as time allowed.  There's always the 'bay to give you back some of your investment on the Con Cors.

[eric220]

I took another look at the makeups. Cody and I were both looking at the westbound train. The eastbound train has no head end or P-70's listed. That sounds like a much better train: 14 cars of solid silver. Also, I discovered that I was wrong about the coaches. They were P85h's, not P85's. the Con Cor cars are not as good of a match for the coaches as I thought. Still, well within the flavor.

[CodyO]

I do like that eastbound train better also

I`ll agree Con Cor catches the flavor but I think I`d personally rather buy kato cars and swap out 14 sides, I know its not that easy but i think the effort would be worth it!

[eja]

Gosh, guys:

How many of us ever saw or rode the Senator ?  (Yes I rode the Congo a couple of times, and I honestly don't exactly remember what it looked like or what cars were one it .  All I cared about was it on time - it was).

The following is not addressed to any individual -


Sometimes I feel we get too involved in the exactness of our hobby.  If you model of a particular train and it recreates the feeling you remember, well why not do it, even if it isn't exact ?

eja
??

[havingfuntoo]

It is all about what turns you on, what spins your wheels, what lights your lights.

[bbussey]

While difficult or expensive to procure in quantity due to it being available only in four-car sets, the Kato Broadway Limited Budd-built "Inn" sleeper would be a good starting point as well.  The sides from the windowband down and between the door and blind-end corner post would have to be modified for each variation.  But it would work as a core kit for every car in the consist.

[CodyO]

Would the kato Santa Fe budd cars also work?

[Bob Bufkin]

Never road in either train but did ride in the Martha Washington obs from NYC to DC once.  It was the first car behind the GG1 and was deadheading.  The crew let the 4 of us ride this car and I loved it. 

[bbussey]

Would the kato Santa Fe budd cars also work?

Don't know, haven't looked at them.  Not sure which models you are referring to, since I don't recall any standard-height Budd models in the Super Chief and El Capitan consists.

[Dave V]

Gosh, guys:

How many of us ever saw or rode the Senator ?  (Yes I rode the Congo a couple of times, and I honestly don't exactly remember what it looked like or what cars were one it .  All I cared about was it on time - it was).

The following is not addressed to any individual -


Sometimes I feel we get too involved in the exactness of our hobby.  If you model of a particular train and it recreates the feeling you remember, well why not do it, even if it isn't exact ?

eja
??

Point taken, but remember to many people--especially in this forum--the real thrill of the hobby comes from getting it as close to exact as the physical limitations of scale model railroading will allow, in many cases to the point where only the builder himself has the knowledge of prototype necessary to truly appreciate the fidelity of his own work.

In my case, there's no real rhyme or reason as to what things I'll be super anal about and what things are just "good enough."  The OP will have to decide where his cutoff is based on the trade-off between accuracy and work.

I don't generally discourage people from going the extra mile and raising the bar.  To many of us on the Railwire, it's what inspires us to do better.  That constructive "peer pressure" is part of what makes this forum unique.

[CodyO]

Here's the kato car I was talking about
http://www.katousa.com/images/805163.jpg

And the parts department page
http://search.cartserver.com/search/search.cgi?cartid=s-1078&keywords=NBUDDCORR&maxhits=100&go=List+Parts&bool=AND&bool=AND


I'd personally like to go that extra mile and end up with something that's as close to right as I can

I've just spent 40 hours detailing 3 GHQ L1s
I'm happy with myself for putting that much time and commitment into it plus I got to earn some extra hobby dollars doing one

[bbussey]

Here's the kato car I was talking about
http://www.katousa.com/images/805163.jpg

That's a CB&Q prototype.  Not accurate for any Pennsy Budd prototypes unless you replace the entire side.  Also, the sleeper roof (no longer available) is a better starting point than the coach roof.

I'd personally like to go that extra mile and end up with something that's as close to right as I can

That would mean securing the "Inn" series body, which unfortunately never was released as individual parts.  The tooling is better also on the consist varnish than on the older single cars.

[CodyO]

My plan was to use them and replace the sides with the Union Station products sides