Pennsy T1 Build

[robert3985]

Hmmmmmm...Jason does it to me again!  I've been complaining about the articulation in the Athearn BB's and Challengers for years, and I think I just came up with an idea that might solve my problem!  Take the power off of the front engine...period...it'll be free rolling...sock the rear engine solidly in place, and put the joint on the front engine on its rear...just like the real deal...and add whatever weight I can to the boiler over the rear engine.

Damn!...I think that might work!!  Since I'm only pulling 30 cars max, that should work! 

Easy way to test the theory is to do a little disassembly and get the front engine free rolling, and see what happens to loco pulling force. 

I know what I'm doing this coming week!

Gotta love threads like this...gets my brain workin'!!

[peteski]

Gotta love threads like this...gets my brain workin'!!

Nice! 

[Cajonpassfan]

Jason, WOW what progress!
Do you ever sleep?
Otto

[superturbine]

Thanks Pete & Otto,

I sleep when I need time to figure out what I am doing wrong...  I need more sleep.

[Kisatchie]

Gotta love threads like this...gets my brain workin'!!

Hmm... gets Kiz's brain
hurtin'...

[VonRyan]

I still don't understand the aversion.

In a conventionally-powered model (engine in the loco) the tender is a dead-weight which needs to be pulled by the locomotive.  In a tender-driven model the dead-weight just happens to be in front of the powered unit.  Why does the location of the dead-weight matter to you?  Tender-drive locomotives usually have several traction tires on their wheels and they can often out-pull a similar model which has a powered locomotive.

There are many examples of N scale models where the the powered unit is not heading the train.  Not even considering the modern Kato push-pull commuter trains, most (if not all) high speed Japanese Shinkansen train models (even including the Accela) have power units in the middle of the consist. So in either direction, half of the train is being pushed by the power unit.

A proto steam loco pulls its tender, so it would make sense that a prototypical model should do the same, which is one reason I prefer the motor in the engine.
In a case where it is more efficient for the motor to be in the tender, I would at least expect that a drive-shaft be used to allow the drivers to be the source of the traction, as is the proper way.
Even if a strictly tender-driven loco can out-pull one with the motor in the boiler, or a tender-motor with a drive-shaft to the drivers, I'd take one of the latter.
Plus a majority of engines with motors in the boiler (or even a tender-motor with a drive-shaft), are not properly balanced, but rather they have weight crammed in wherever it will fit.
As an example, one of B-mann's spectrum-line steam engines, from the factory, is a loco with excellent pulling power, but it is out of balance. I know of one person who has removed 1 gram of weight (IIRC it was from the smokebox end, but of what model of loco I cannot recall) which balanced out the loco. The process actually increased its pulling capabilities due to the fact that all the drivers were making full, and equal, contact with the rails.

In any case, I eagerly await to see how Jason does with this project since if it is successful enough it might just undercut the brass-import market.


-Cody F.

[DKS]

A proto steam loco pulls its tender, so it would make sense that a prototypical model should do the same, which is one reason I prefer the motor in the engine.

I simply don't get this strict adherence to the function of a locomotive, when there are all manner of other non-prototypical things done in order to make a 1:160 model function. I would one day like to model a particular type of steam engine where the frame is sized and shaped prototypically, with all of the space around the drivers appropriately open. In other words, no visible gears, and no need to hide any. In this case, the only practical solution is a true tender drive. If the performance of such an arrangement is on par with more traditional drive designs, I cannot see any reason to justify compromising the realism of the loco simply to satisfy a need to have the drivers actually drive. It seems like a purist's approach that imposes unnecessary limitations.

Please note I'm not trying to be snarky, here. I'm just trying to understand the assertion,

...as is the proper way.

"Proper" opens a rather generous can of worms, IMHO. How far does one take this? The windows in the cab are glass; must the model have glass windows as well? (This is of course feasible, but is it really necessary?)

[Lemosteam]

David, All,

How's about we take the tender drive discussion to a separate, fully valid thread so as not to cloud the real topic of Jason's genius here and those following can enjoy the build without wading through a philosophical discussion. 

If I am improperly requesting this, please forgive.

[mark dance]

I simply don't get this strict adherence to the function of a locomotive, when there are all manner of other non-prototypical things done in order to make a 1:160 model function. I would one day like to model a particular type of steam engine where the frame is sized and shaped prototypically, with all of the space around the drivers appropriately open. In other words, no visible gears, and no need to hide any. In this case, the only practical solution is a true tender drive. If the performance of such an arrangement is on par with more traditional drive designs, I cannot see any reason to justify compromising the realism of the loco simply to satisfy a need to have the drivers actually drive. It seems like a purist's approach that imposes unnecessary limitations.

Please note I'm not trying to be snarky, here. I'm just trying to understand the assertion,

"Proper" opens a rather generous can of worms, IMHO. How far does one take this? The windows in the cab are glass; must the model have glass windows as well? (This is of course feasible, but is it really necessary?)

Maybe we should put this in the same thread as "real rock" versus "walnut shells" ?

md

[DKS]

David, All,

How's about we take the tender drive discussion to a separate, fully valid thread so as not to cloud the real topic of Jason's genius here and those following can enjoy the build without wading through a philosophical discussion. 

If I am improperly requesting this, please forgive.

No, you're not improperly requesting this. I agree it should probably be in a separate thread so as to not pollute this one, but I don't think it's important enough to bother, really; I'll let this topic just die. My apologies for the hijacking!

[chicken45]

The troll in me wants to ask why our STEAM LOCOMOTIVES run ON ELECTRICITY.
 

[superturbine]

Ok, here is a youtube video of the test run of the engine.  Making the engine free rolling was not just a simple pull the motor and gear out.  The 2nd driver is very loose in the drive box and required shimming or order to keep the wheel in contact with the rail and rods and cross head required work to reduce friction.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcIavRZct1Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0MR-Hn-z14&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Jason Smith
Tomball Locomotive Works

BTW HOW DO I properly post a you-tube link?

[Lemosteam]

SCHA-WING!!!!!

[altohorn25]

That looks pretty sweet 

Nate

[wcfn100]

BTW HOW DO I properly post a you-tube link?

I don't know if SMS software likes the secure HTTP protocol (https).

Jason