Big Boys, Big Boys and....Big Boys!

[robert3985]

For all the SUPF's out there, Athearn has listed their Big Boys as "in stock" except for one, which is already sold out.  Went to eBay to see if any were up for sale...yup...Horizon Hobby has five UP numbers up for sale at a mere $464.98 ea.

Sure happy I bought mine months ago at $340.00 ea.!!!  Keeping my ear to the phone for my LHS to give me a call...YEAH!!

Happy to have sold one (1) of mine last year for $850.00   

Challengers are due in June!!

[robert3985]

LHS called yesterday at 5:11PM...Big Boys will be in the store next week sometime!  Don't know why I'm so hyped about this since I already have several of 'em, but I am.

[up1950s]

Now if it were a simpled Bull Moose my wallet would be opened ..... http://www.vectis.co.uk/AuctionImages/442/348_l.jpg

[robert3985]

Now if it were a simpled Bull Moose my wallet would be opened ..... http://www.vectis.co.uk/AuctionImages/442/348_l.jpg

NICE!  Not used in my era or locale, but I understand.  Wait around and Jason'll make a resin body and conversion for ya!  I still have to get back to him about the 2-10-2's he's done recently.

These two Big Boys and one Challenger I'll be getting (along with my son's) will make my operating scheme viable, although I could use a couple more of each, for scenic purposes sitting at the Ogden engine facilities.

I model Big Boy country...between Ogden and Wahsatch.  Big Boys stopped running between Ogden and Green River in March of 1954, when this section went oil/diesel and Turbines took over what the Big Boys used to pull.  My operational time period is between the late 40's thru 1956, but stops absolutely at 1957.  Scenery and structures are as they were in 1951, so the SP roundhouse in Ogden was still up and fully functional (got torn down the following year).

Oil fired 3700 Class Challengers were used, along with a few 2-10-2's, as end of train helpers on everything not pulled by a Big Boy.  Turbines needed 'em too after the Big Boys stopped running on this section of the U.P., so...I'll have seven Challengers for that function, and the operation at Wahsatch at the top of the grade, where the helpers cut off the back of the trains, turned on the wye and dead-headed 67 miles back to Ogden/Riverdale will be interesting to attempt to model.

I've only got one Athearn Challenger now that has smoke lifters (two more on the way in June), and I called the Athearn parts dept. to see if they had 'em in stock.  $18.75 for those two little pieces of plastic!!!  Wow...guess I'll bite the bullet and buy several sets of 'em, as making them and painting them up would probably take me several hours each, and my time is worth more than 20 bucks for three hours work.  Tenders are in stock too...at over $100 bucks apiece!  Sheesh...I wanted a couple for the Ogden Roundhouse, but I'll have to think about it.

Times are good for modeling the U.P. in my time period and place!  Good to be a SUPF!

[Nato]

                     Notice my usual Neutral silly face has been replaced with happy. I fully understand how Robert feels as these locomotives will have a better Tsunami Sound System and do away with the little RC transmitter we had to use the sound in DC. (WA-a-a?). I'am looking forward to my Chuck Pack and a call from my LSMFT(Lucky Strike means......) no LHS for mine , hopefully the Challemgers will be right behind.      Nate Goodman (Nato).

[jdcolombo]

Though I model the NKP, I ordered one.  I'm just a sucker for big steam, especially when as well done as Athearn's.  going to get a Clinchfield Challenger as well, which would be a tiny bit more realistic sitting on my layout.  Wish someone would do the Allegheny and the Yellowstone, along with the C&O T1 2-10-4 and, and, and . . . (I need to quit hyperventilating)

John C.

[peteski]

For all the SUPF's out there, Athearn has listed their Big Boys as "in stock" except for one, which is already sold out.  Went to eBay to see if any were up for sale...yup...Horizon Hobby has five UP numbers up for sale at a mere $464.98 ea.

I just check Athearn's website and all the ones announced in 2012 are in stock.  The one showing as sold out, in the 2nd row, is from the 2008 run. 

[robert3985]

Thanks Peteski.  That means MORE BIG BOYS!!  Maybe I'll get another one.... )

[Cajonpassfan]

Bob, I think maybe you need to buy another Big Boy 
Otto K.

[SkipGear]

Ours came in Monday. Picked up one for myself. I had one of the first run set aside an eon ago. A customer begged me for it, I gave in expecting that another run wouldn't be far behind. Boy was I wrong. This one came home with me the day they walked in the door at the shop.

I did a quick test run of one of the others we got in at the shop. As much as everybody bad mouths the MRC decoders, I think the sound set is better at slow speed. The Tsunami sounds rather anemic and the chuff timing is way off as is. I need to go in a play with the setup a bit.

[robert3985]

Hate to disagree with you Tony, but no way does the MRC decoder sound better than the Tsunami.  I've still got a 2nd run Challenger with the ol' MRC in it and running that at the same time as my Soundtraxx Tsunami equipped Big Boys and Challengers is embarrassing, to say the least.  But, I've fiddled with the Tsunamis...but, I've fiddled with the MRC's too.  Best sound vs best sound...no comparo...like the Tsunami's are exponentially better...like in another, superior universe.

The real comparo I'd be interested in would be ESU Loksound vs Soundtraxx Tsunami since I'm such a big fan of Loksound diesel.

I decided I didn't want to worry about chuff timing, as that would put the chuff the same all the time, instead of running in and out of syncopation like the real ones do.  That's one of the things I really like about the Tsunami, is the in/out of syncopation it does...even though the front engine and rear engine are always at the same relationship on the Athearn model.  However, timing the chuff to the rear engine would probably be a good idea, then simply enjoying the out-of-phase chuff sound as it comes and goes, even though the drivers are always in the same relationship.

I had to fiddle with the whistle on my Tsunamis also.  The default setting was too quiet and too low to my ear.  It's been over a year since I messed with it, but now it sounds just right and is easily audible at shows as well as on the home layout.

I also love the rod clank on the Tsunami, and the very flexible inertia effect that allows me to turn the speed down to zero at my throttle, the chuff goes way down in volume and the rods clank...mmmmmmmm....then as it coasts to a stop, the brakes squeal very very realistically...all without me having to manually input these sounds.

The MRC isn't even in the same world as this, with jackrabbit starts and stops, weird echoing whistle, no rod clank that I've heard and very bad, manually input brake squeal.

Then there's that "Choo-chee-choochoo, choo-chee-choochoo, choo-chee-choochoo..." chuff the MRC has...yuck...which sounds really close to that little Bachmann sound generator I bought my kids when they were young when they'd walk along beside me when I was running at shows years ago.  Drove my ex crazy for weeks after the shows!!  Hahaha...!!  Karma decrees that it now drives me nuts, and costs me a Tsunami decoder to get rid of it in five Big Boys and four Challengers...that's about a grand in decoders??  Happy the new batch will have them already installed!!  Goin' down Thursday to pick 'em up! 

[SkipGear]

It's not the sound effects, it's the speaker that I think is the problem. The chuff sound is very anemic and doesn't translate the size of the loco. The sounds they chose for the chuffs just doesn't say Big Boy to me. I have an MRC Challenger and have never had any throttle issues. My biggest complaint with the MRC is the sound at speed is pretty much a blur of static. The Tsunami does that much better and yes the Tsunami whistle and background sounds are better. At slow crawling speeds, the MRC chuff was in time out of the box and sounded bigger. Mind you I'm not saying louder, but bigger, deeper and throatier.

Chuff timing is a pet peeve of mine. If it isn't right, especially at low speeds, then it throws the whole effect out the door. I would rather have a quiet loco than one that the chuffs don't sync with the drivers. The chuff timing is nowhere close on the Big Boy. You should hear between 8 single chuffs to 4 double chuffs per revolution depending on the sync of the front and rear engines. I'm getting barely 2 per revolution.

[jdcolombo]

Hi Tony.

Have you tried playing around with the equalizer?  In my "standard" Tsunami installs, I set CV153 to 7 (for a user-defined curve);  then I set CV's 154-155 to zero, because these are the bass bands, and our small speakers can't do any real bass anyway.   Then I turn up the mid-range bands (156, 157 and 158) to something like 220, and leave the very high bands (159 and 160) alone.  This often improves the sound, at least in my installs.

Do you know what speaker Athearn is using?  In the Challenger that I converted from an MRC to Tsunami TSU750 Heavy Steam (before the boards were available), I used a 16x35 mm oval in an enclosure made out of lead sheet.  Manufacturers don't seem to want to go the separate-enclosure route, believing that the tender shell provides an adequate sealed baffle.  It doesn't.  There is probably a lot that could be done speaker-wise, but until I get mine and can disassemble the tender to see what the component layout looks like, can't say for sure.

With respect to chuffs, I never could get good sync between wheel rotation and chuffs using a Tsunami alone, which is why I use dual decoders in all my installations.  But in theory it should be possible to nearly perfectly match chuffs by using a custom speed table.  Again, I'll have to wait until I get mine.   On my Challenger, I put the TSU in single-chuff mode to match chuffs to driver rotation, and then switched back to dual-engine mode.  I forget the CV that does this, but you have a choice of single-cylinder per side and dual cylinders, with the latter having two "sync" options that vary the sync between engines.  Or at least you have all these choices with a standard TSU-750; I assume these options are all available with the factory-installed unit?

John C.

[peteski]

With respect to chuffs, I never could get good sync between wheel rotation and chuffs using a Tsunami alone, which is why I use dual decoders in all my installations.  But in theory it should be possible to nearly perfectly match chuffs by using a custom speed table.  Again, I'll have to wait until I get mine.   On my Challenger, I put the TSU in single-chuff mode to match chuffs to driver rotation, and then switched back to dual-engine mode.  I forget the CV that does this, but you have a choice of single-cylinder per side and dual cylinders, with the latter having two "sync" options that vary the sync between engines.  Or at least you have all these choices with a standard TSU-750; I assume these options are all available with the factory-installed unit?

John C.

I have never owned a Tsunami decoder so I don't know how they do the chuff sync.  But I own couple of other sound decoders (Zimo and QSI Revolution). Both of those utilize the BEMF for chuff synchronization.  BEMF circuitry is also capable of sending information about how much load is placed on the motor.

A quick explanation is that BEMF circuitry has the capability of directly reading the rpms of the motor.  That (divided by some value which is set through a CV register) generates chuff timing.  That method is pretty much as accurate as having a cam installed on the driver axle.  If you for example stop the running loco by hand (by pressing down on it and holding it), the chuffs will stop.   That is how well the BEMF sync works.

You can never achieve this type of sync with separate decoders since the dedicated sound decoder is totally unaware of the actual speed of the locomotive or the load on its motor (since the motor is controlled by a separate isolated decoder).  So, if such loco is going uphill with a heavy train, the motor will slow down and the chuffs will go out of sync. Also this type of setup makes it impossible to simulate louder, labored chuffs when the loco is under heavy load and going uphill.  The sound decoders I mentioned are capable of these effects and they make the sound so much more realistic than a simple chuffing.

[jdcolombo]

I have never owned a Tsunami decoder so I don't know how they do the chuff sync.  But I own couple of other sound decoders (Zimo and QSI Revolution). Both of those utilize the BEMF for chuff synchronization.  BEMF circuitry is also capable of sending information about how much load is placed on the motor.

A quick explanation is that BEMF circuitry has the capability of directly reading the rpms of the motor.  That (divided by some value which is set through a CV register) generates chuff timing.  That method is pretty much as accurate as having a cam installed on the driver axle.  If you for example stop the running loco by hand (by pressing down on it and holding it), the chuffs will stop.   That is how well the BEMF sync works.

You can never achieve this type of sync with separate decoders since the dedicated sound decoder is totally unaware of the actual speed of the locomotive or the load on its motor (since the motor is controlled by a separate isolated decoder).  So, if such loco is going uphill with a heavy train, the motor will slow down and the chuffs will go out of sync. Also this type of setup makes it impossible to simulate louder, labored chuffs when the loco is under heavy load and going uphill.  The sound decoders I mentioned are capable of these effects and they make the sound so much more realistic than a simple chuffing.

The Tsunami doesn't use BEMF for chuff sync.  I agree that's a much better system, and why I'd like to see an after-market version of the QSI decoder used in the Walthers/LL Y3.
I didn't know the Zimo worked this way - might have to check that out for future sound installs.  But since the TSU doesn't do it, you have to match chuffs to driver rotation with some sort of speed table.  I also have had issues in the past with the TSU's motor control; the one in my Challenger occasionally "goes crazy" and won't respond correctly to throttle input, at which point I have to remove power to "reset" it.

The QSI isn't a viable after-market option.  Will check out the Zimo.

John C.