Seeking Soldering Masters

[eja]

This link may be useful to you ...

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/solder.htm

eja

[peteski]

Peteski- I picked up the Radio Shack flux prior to composing this thread.  I suppose I didn't understand that Rosin core meant non-acid.  I was just looking everywhere for a package that said "non-acid" as I had read that recommendation many times.

Yes, rosin flux indicates that it is not acidic (as rosin is inert).

When it comes to good joint versus cold joint, I am told the good joint will look shiny like chrome, and cold joints will look dull.  Well, I find that some of mine look a very shiny and proper, and others are bit dull, but not matte gray.  How can I immediately tell if the joint needs to be re-soldered?

Hmm... that is something that comes with experience.    If the joint is crusty, dull gray in color, and the solder looks troweled on, then you most likely have a cold solder joint.  If you can see that the solder has flowed onto the soldered surfaces (the solder has wetted the surface) and the solder itself is smooth and shiny then there was enough heat to create a good solder joint and the pieces weren't moved as the solder was solidifying. That is a good joint.

Wikipedia has a nice article about soldering.  Here is a pointer to the part that describes quality of a solder joint http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering#Electronics  but I recommend reading the entire page.

[Noah Lane]

Peteski- good call. thanks again!

[CodyO]

Just did 12 sets of these for our helix

First insert small jewelers flat head screw driver to pop out joiner



Then rubber banding closed a set of pliers to securely hold the joiner(no wiggling at all)

Make sure the bottom flat side of joiner is showing also just make a small bend in the wire and strip off just a bit of the coating


we then fluxed and then Tinned both the wire AND the bottom of the joiner then just use the iron to hold down the wire along with your free hand and after the solder flows release the heat and give a SLIGHT tug on the wire to ensure a good join

Make sure the wire has a sight bend away from the joiner


To insert joiner back into unitrack insert at a slight angle


and pull all the way though at that angle


then push back down into unitrack plastic joiner





 

[Noah Lane]

Cody- thank you for the extremely detailed tutorial. I am still in a bit of a debate as to whether to solder to the track pieces or Unijoiners. Like I said, this seems to be an issue that the Unitrack users will never agree upon.

[JMaurer1]

I only skim read the answers so I apologize if I'm repeating things already said...

I have had (and still have) just about every kind and wattage of soldering irons. For track I use the smaller wattage irons but I also try to use a larger tip - the tip will store the heat. A small tip will cool off too quickly making it hard to solder correctly (especially since you are soldering to track...there's a lot of metal pulling the heat out of your tip). Make sure that the track you are solder to is clean...no paint or corrosion. If you need to clean it, just scrape the side of the track with a hobby knife. Let the iron get hot and then tin (cover them with solder) both pieces that you are going to solder. Let the iron heat back up again and then solder the two together. Clean the iron by wiping it on a damp sponge but then let it get hot again (just a few seconds is all it takes) before soldering again. It should only take about two to five seconds to tin either the track or wire. If you are taking longer than that you will start melting the track ties. Feed the solder right where the iron meets the wire or rail and (in the case with wire) make sure that the entire wire is covered with solder (check the side you can't see). With both parts tinned it only takes a second or two to then join the parts.

While most soldering iron tips come pre-tinned, some do not. If you have solder that won't stick to parts of the tip or the solder just balls up in certain areas (or just won't melt onto the tip at all), you need to tin the iron tip. Best way to do this is to use a very high wattage iron and tin the tip of the other iron just like it was a piece of wire. Make sure you cover the entire tip of the iron and at least 1/4 to 1/2 up from the very tip of the iron. If your irons tip starts to become pitted or damaged, file the tip until it is clean and smooth again and re-tin the tip.

Finally, the only way to get good is to practice. If the solder is a dull color (like lead) or the solder is lumpy then you have a cold solder joint and you need to reheat it. A good joint is smooth and shinny. Anyways, good luck and you should be able to get the hang of it rather quickly.

[rogergperkins]

Good luck with finding a suggestion that works for you.
I am puzzled why you need this many track leads.  This must be an enormous layout!
I use Kato Unitrack.

[robert3985]

This link may be useful to you ...

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/solder.htm

eja

This is an excellent article.  Read specifically what he recommends for liquid flux, which is Superior No. 30 Supersafe Solderling Flux, available here: http://www.ccis.com/home/hn/page22.html

I've used this for decades (gel) and it is the out-and-out BEST flux for brass, NS, tin, copper that there is...PERIOD.

All this other Radio Shack, rosin, blah blah blah stuff, is inferior to Supersafe No. 30 Flux....way inferior.

Wanna be a soldering master?  Using Supersafe No. 30 flux will get you about 90% there.

[DKS]

This is an excellent article.  Read specifically what he recommends for liquid flux, which is Superior No. 30 Supersafe Solderling Flux, available here: http://www.ccis.com/home/hn/page22.html

I've used this for decades (gel) and it is the out-and-out BEST flux for brass, NS, tin, copper that there is...PERIOD.

All this other Radio Shack, rosin, blah blah blah stuff, is inferior to Supersafe No. 30 Flux....way inferior.

Wanna be a soldering master?  Using Supersafe No. 30 flux will get you about 90% there.

Have you tried anything else? 

I don't maintain that I'm a "master solderer", but I do pretty good without Supersafe. I'd assert there's more than one good flux on the market...







I have a real problem with such absolutes as "out-and-out BEST...PERIOD."

[peteski]

Have you tried anything else? 
I don't maintain that I'm a "master solderer", but I do pretty good without Supersafe. I'd assert there's more than one good flux on the market...

+1

I'm willing to try Supersafe, but a statement that it is the best thing out there is a pretty tall order.

[DKS]

I'd even go further and recommend that modelers who do a lot of soldering would benefit from having more than one kind of flux on hand, to suit various applications. Although I use Stay Clean liquid most of the time, there are occasions where a paste or other sort of flux is better. I would not maintain that there's one single flux type that suits all circumstances, let alone one brand.

[robert3985]

Well...all the comments coming from people who have not yet tried Supersafe. 

I did pretty good without it too, while building ship models commercially and working at Battelle Labs and Morton Thiokol as a Sr. Model Maker.  The conventional fluxes work okay most of the time, but Supersafe works better than anything I've tried, and I've tried a LOT.

Although I still have Plumber's Honey around for soldering copper water pipes with my torch, when I'm building an intricate model, or soldering to rails, or making turnouts with my irons or my resistance soldering station...I use Supersafe...because it WORKS.

The only exception is when I'm using my oxy-acetylene "Little Torch" which, since I bought my American Beauty resistance soldering station is becoming not very often.

Ah well, as to the "problem"...sometimes there actually IS an out-and-out BEST.  Supersafe fluxes are a good example. 

BUT, maybe it won't work for you like it does for everybody else who tries it. 

Here are some examples of projects completed using Supersafe No. 30

Hallmark "Welded UP Caboose" completely disassembled, re-soldered, over 80 scratchbuilt brass parts applied w/Supersafe No. 30


Scratchbuilt UP Cantilever Signal Bridge...a copy of the bridge that was at the 1000 Mile Tree Monument in Wilhemina Pass, UT using an iron and Supersafe No. 30.  Notice particularly the ladder, which is not etched, but constructed with brass sides and rungs.


Hallmark caboose and signal tower at the west end of Echo


Highly modified Traincat UP cantilever signal bridge on my buddy Nate's layout.  At least 60 parts and soldered using Supersafe No.30 and my American Beauty 250W resistance soldering station, with brass scratchbuilt D-type signal heads and 96/4 tin/silver solder.


So...I'm no stranger to building and soldering small parts either.

[DKS]

BUT, maybe it won't work for you like it does for everybody else who tries it. 

I don't exactly see droves of other people claiming it's the best in this thread, so forgive me if I take a single unqualified response with a grain of salt. 

And I will reiterate that, in my experience, there is no one single product that is the best for every application. That would be an extremely hard sell.

So, give me a reason to switch. I'm quite pleased with the results I get with Stay Clean as my primary flux of choice (although I use others); what immediate benefits will I see if I used Supersafe instead?

[robert3985]

I don't exactly see droves of other people claiming it's the best in this thread, so forgive me if I take a single unqualified response with a grain of salt. 

And I will reiterate that, in my experience, there is no one single product that is the best for every application. That would be an extremely hard sell.

So, give me a reason to switch. I'm quite pleased with the results I get with Stay Clean as my primary flux of choice (although I use others); what immediate benefits will I see if I used Supersafe instead?

DKS, I don't see anybody else who has tried it on this thread, so of course they don't have a qualified opinion.  Frankly, it's no skin off my butt if nobody tries it, including you.  If you get excellent results from using inferior products, then GREAT!!

However, my suggestion was offered in support of Alan Gartner's statement about Supersafe No. 30, part of this link: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/solder.htm    posted in a previous comment, and is directed at neophyte solderers with little experience under their belts...as is this thread.

I'll quote it: 

"Liquid flux is not as convenient as rosin core fluxes.  Or so it would seem.  H&N Electronics http://www.ccis.com/home/hn markets Supersafe flux which works as advertised.  I have tried liquid fluxes before, but none impressed me enough to give up using rosin core solder until I came across this product."

"Solder joints look great and are more quickly obtained.  If you find soldering difficult, try this liquid flux.  You are not left with a residue which contributes to cold solder joints.  You will find the solder flows completely over your joint.  Quicker soldering means less likelihood of melting ties."

"I use their gel, which is more like a syrup than a paste, for soldering to HO track.  Just dip solid (no core) solder in the gel.  The drop can then be applied to the side of the rail.  You will find liquid flux makes it effortless to solder to the side of weathered rail.  (Weathered rail can be hard to solder even after the weathering is removed with a Dremel.)"

"When using liquid flux, do not use a rosin core flux. That defeats the advantages of using liquid flux. Use solid solder. H&N sells solid solder. Your local hardware store may also have it. It also can be ordered from places like Digikey and Mouser."

"Their liquid works great for G nickel-silver and for attaching all feeders to buses. Go ahead and keep using rosin core flux to install decoders and other electronic work."


Hmmm...guess you didn't read that eh?  I completely agree with it, as it is exactly my experience with it.  So, I guess I'm not the only one on this thread who recommends it, in sort of a back-door way.

I spot several possible reasons in Alan's recommendation for you to give it a try, but change is hard, I know.

Notice the part about "If you find soldering difficult, try this flux."  Since you are an expert and are happy with your results, then by all means keep doing what you're doing.  However, those who are not as expert as you will find that this product GREATLY eases many common soldering difficulties that neophytes have, and their success rate will increase noticeably.

I only offer this "unqualified" recommendation to improve people's soldering experience, not to compete with anybody's preconceived assumptions about something they've never used.   

[Sokramiketes]

I have to say, Bob's solder joints look sharper and less blob-like than the other examples.  I've noticed similar issues with rosin core solder versus a proper flux, so I don't think the results are unrelated. 

I just ordered some Supersafe gel and paste.