Proto-lanced Pennsy: The West Slope

[chicken45]

So the more I think about this, the more I am coming back to the plan of an "all in one" door. We're moving next year and not knowing what that situation could be (till we get a house) makes me want to keep it simple for now.
So I am planning on only having room for one HCD in my next apartment. And with that, I've been kicking this around.



I get the best of both worlds. I have a MG and a mountain view block that lets me preserve the integrity of the area (lots of nothing  ). It will make a beautiful fall scene.
Then in town, I will have some switching opportunities based off the coke furnaces in northern Gallitzin.

I am looking for input on these specific points:

• I moved the turnouts at MG away from each other to maximize passing. Was this a wise choice?
• I moved the entry of New Portage Tunnel (NPT) further down the curve to keep away from MG, preserving its quasi-prototypical situation.
• I moved AR tower near the exit of NPT and added UN tower. AR controlled UN, so it and it lets me model that little tower/cute little hut.
• Passenger and Freight depots are on their own siding.
• There was a MOW siding in Cresson. I'm taking some artistic liberty to display some of my MOW equipment here. I don't know if there was a wreck train stationed there, but they did store snow plows there and I got one of those!
  I thought about changing UN to MO, but that seemed unfocused to me. Arguments can be made for both, but I'm trying to model Gallitzin, not Cresson.

As far as industrial switching goes, here is what I tentatively have planned:

• A coal mine that feeds coal to the coke furnaces. I'll have two tracks, an elevated track for unloading the coal in the ovens, and a lower track for loading the coke. I understand they used narrow gauge equipment on the tops of the furnaces. Will anyone point this out and say "hey dummy, you got it wrong?"  Did they still make coke using this method in the 50's?
  

I know at the end of the day, it's my call, but I value all input so I can make the most informed decisions and judgement calls.
Thanks for looking and following along.

[DKS]

A couple of things to consider...



I found it kind of awkward you had the coal mine and coke ovens side-by-side; sort of defeats the purpose of having a railroad. So I split them apart, and I'd put the scenic ridge diagonally between them for more visual mileage. The result probably isn't right in terms of what the parts of the line represent geographically. Oh, well. I also lengthened the MOW siding a little, and pushed the crossovers all the way out to the curves to smooth things up a bit.

[chicken45]

DKS, thanks for drawing this up! I have to ask what made you remove the passenger freight siding?

[DKS]

DKS, thanks for drawing this up! I have to ask what made you remove the passenger freight siding?

I didn't; the source file I started with didn't have it, and I didn't notice that until you mentioned it... 

I fixed it--just refresh the page.

[kelticsylk]

Dave,
I know what you were thinking when you moved the mine away from the coke ovens, but in the area being modeled that was not the case. There were a string of what might be called "wildcat" coke producers. Small time company's (or persons) trying to garner a living.

Josh is essentially correct and shows the coal being moved from the mine to the ovens via switch back. The coke is then picked up on the other siding and shipped elsewhere. Rather than two separate railroads, he has the PRR doing all the work.

The ovens were often near the mines and connected by wagon roads and/or narrow guage railroad lines. Sometimes the mine tracks were just extended to the coke ovens. The coal was fed into the top of the ovens from cars/wagons/people above. The coke was removed from the ovens via an opening at the side. At that point it was loaded into waiting rail cars.

Glen White Coal & Lumber was a bit more sophisticated in that they actually owned a narrow guage railroad and a Shay locomotive to haul the coal from the mine tipple to the ovens. Their track ran along the ovens on the upside. The Pennsy hauled away the coke on their tracks which ran along the lower side...

You can see that the Pennsy siding comes off the main on the west side of the curve. It travels up the ravine until it reaches the ovens (long rectangles with black dots) You can also see the Glen White tracks running from the ovens to the mine (mines). Most of the other operations, like the ones at Sugar Furnace and Gallitzin were smaller and only the PRR siding is visible. Although I have seen a indication that there was a mine on the north side of Sugar Furnace, the other sidings show only ovens. It's possible the coke production was "outsourced" and the Pennsy delivered coal to these sites and then picked up the finished product. I'm pretty sure all the ovens were locally owned, a kind of cottage industry...

The coke was  for the mills in Johnstown, Pittsburgh and other places. Instead of a coal mine I would suggest a steel mill.

[DKS]

Dave,
I know what you were thinking when you moved the mine away from the coke ovens, but in the area being modeled that was not the case.

I was well aware--

The result probably isn't right in terms of what the parts of the line represent geographically.

Instead of a coal mine I would suggest a steel mill.

Now, that would be a cute trick--modeling a steel mill on half of an HCD... 

Josh is essentially correct and shows the coal being moved from the mine to the ovens via switch back. The coke is then picked up on the other siding and shipped elsewhere. Rather than two separate railroads, he has the PRR doing all the work.

Well done, Josh--may as well put it back the way you had it!

[chicken45]

Oh man. Steel Mill. I'd love to model that, but that's a HCD of itself! I'll save that for the day I model Altoona to Johnstown in my basement or third garage (after I win the lottery).

I saw these KenRay Models in my LHS back in Pittsburgh.




I think that gon looks pretty darn good! It' doesn't come with trucks or couplers, but it's $10, painted and assembled!

Pretty sweet stuff. I got to meet Ken Ray at an N scale weekend in Columbus last year. Nice guy.


But back to coke, I have some very specific questions:
How was coal transported to the ovens? Hoppers? How did they unload them in to the furnaces? Did they just open the hoppers and let gravity do all the work, or was it manual labor?

When loading the coke, they loaded it back into hoppers? How did they do that? Were the coke loading tracks lower than the ovens to just unload and dump in to other hoppers?

I've been looking around a lot to see how other modelers do coke ops but haven't found much.

I haven't decided what to do yet. DKS's suggestion gives more operational mileage, but Frank's is more prototypical.

You guys are great at giving me things to think about.

[Philip H]

Both Coal and Coke have been carried in 3 bay open hoppers.  There are numerous prototypes that would work for your era and region.  I believe most coke operations received the hoppers and had gravity dumps, and had similar systems for loading coke at the end of the process.

[kelticsylk]

Dave,
"The result probably isn't right in terms of what the parts of the line represent geographically"
Sorry, I didn't pick up on that when I read your post.

"Now, that would be a cute trick--modeling a steel mill on half of an HCD... "

Didn't really mean Josh should try...I realize the mills can't be modeled properly in one corner of a room, let alone a door. Don't think you could even suggest the presence of a mill. I suppose you could if the siding disappears behind some buildings and you imagined the "branch" went to a mill. Someday maybe Josh could add another door with a better representation of a steel mill.

I'm actually thinking that all the switching operations would be on the Gallitzin side of the table. The MG side would be more of a LCD or LDC or whatever Tony Koester calls his "vignettes".

[kelticsylk]

But back to coke, I have some very specific questions:
How was coal transported to the ovens? Hoppers? How did they unload them in to the furnaces? Did they just open the hoppers and let gravity do all the work, or was it manual labor?

When loading the coke, they loaded it back into hoppers? How did they do that? Were the coke loading tracks lower than the ovens to just unload and dump in to other hoppers?

Back in the day it was done with small dump cars above and high sided gondolas below. Loading the gondolas was manual labor...

There were various size operations...
http://www.fe.psu.edu/Information/Community/31534.htm
http://www.fe.psu.edu/Information/Community/31535.htm

I think operations like Glen White were similar to the one in Newcomer PA (down towards West Virginia).with the Shay doing the work of the pony pulling the wagons. This is the Glen White Shay...No 7.  I believe this photo was taken after she was purchased by Sligo Eastern...

A better view of the tracks and ovens from the H. Frick Coal and Coke operation although the dump cars here were electric. Notice the trolley poles on the dump cars and the recessed siding for the hoppers...

Hoppers used by Bessemer & Lake Erie with screened in sides. In this case loading is performed by a machine...

Shoaf Patch Coke operation served by the Pennsy. Believe it or not these photos are from 1980 or so...

Found this image on a Japanese site. Ovens from inside!

Page from the Virtual Museum of Coal Mining in Western PA. Coral Mine and Coke Works...
http://patheoldminer.rootsweb.ancestry.com/indcoral.html

Google image for coke (ignore the soda advertisements  )...
https://www.google.com/search?q=pennsylvania+railroad+coke+car&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C2CHMI_enUS369&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=crFVUcv5KZCm9gSU0ID4Bg&ved=0CD8QsAQ&biw=1066&bih=745#imgrc=P1tbWPh97c1wsM%3A%3BNK4E06oKavvxjM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fpatheoldminer.rootsweb.ancestry.com%252Findcoral3.gif%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fpatheoldminer.rootsweb.ancestry.com%252Findcoral.html%3B650%3B436

Finally...a small image of a class H22 Pennsy coke car model from hobbylinc.com. Looks like sides are extended and open, bars cover the gaps. Coke was lighter than coal so you could pile it higher...

[Hornwrecker]

More info on the Shoaf coke ovens:

http://www.coalcampusa.com/westpa/connellsville/shoaf/shoaf.htm

[DKS]

You guys are great at giving me things to think about.

Well, then, here's a little more. It's probably way out in fantasy land, but perhaps food for additional thought...

[kelticsylk]

Was checking something and found out I was incorrect about the Glen White operation being narrow guage...Shay #7 was originally purchased by the Sligo Furnace Company in 1916. She was sold to Glen White in 1931. The locomotive was built for standard guage...
http://www.shaylocomotives.com/data/dataframe.htm

[MichaelWinicki]

I like that!

The switchback creates some physical distance between the two and the difference in vertical elevation would give the area an impressive look.

[mark.hinds]

Well, then, here's a little more. It's probably way out in fantasy land, but perhaps food for additional thought...

Where do you intend the scenic divider to be in this version?

MH