Fort Worth & Western Geeps in N-Scale

[Denver Road Doug]

This is a project I began last year that I am "slow rolling" to make sure I get it right.  I originally posted this on another forum but I would like to get more feedback and I think TRW is a good place to get it.   This will be a trio of 4-axle EMD locomotives in n-scale depicting three units from the roster of the Fort Worth & Western Railroad.  I intend for these to be highly detailed models that are as close to the features and look of the actual units as possible given the limitations of scale size.  Recent production of n-scale decals has finally made this project feasible.

Here a few links to the real thing...

2000
RailPictures.Net Photo: FWWR 2000 Fort Worth & Western EMD GP38-3 at Fort Worth, Texas by Brandon Kilgore

2003
RailPictures.Net Photo: FWWR 2003 Fort Worth & Western EMD GP38-3 at Fort Worth, Texas by David Hawkins - KB5WK
RailPictures.Net Photo: FWWR 2003 Fort Worth & Western EMD GP38-3 at Fort Worth, Texas by David Hawkins - KB5WK

2005
RailPictures.Net Photo: FWWR 2005 Fort Worth & Western EMD GP38-2 at Cresson, Texas by David Hawkins - KB5WK

I am slowly starting to collect some good info and photos, but I am still trying to find hi-rez detail shot of the roofs of these locomotives for kitbashing/detailing purposes.  (some modifications to the body will be necessary above and beyond simply adding details)   Following is a shot that has really helped jumpstart things:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xhGQSzik_t4/T2D0BVwYEZI/AAAAAAAAAFY/TQbWBjq8sFQ/s1600/DSCN0890.JPG

[Denver Road Doug]

This is a stripped down version of an e-mail I sent to some friends outlining the project...

-Options are FWWR 2000 "Miss Molly" (a "GP38-3" which is actually a modified GP35 body), FWWR 2003 "General Worth" (another GP38-3), and FWWR 2005 "Maj. Ripley Arnold". (a "GP38-2" which is actually a GP38 body). I plan to do these in as close to an "as-delivered" scheme as the decals will take me. so, early 2000's or so) The paint will be Tru-Color Santa Fe Yellow TCP21 and Tru-Color Via Blue TCP95. Details will probably include: cab sunshades, wipers, mu cables, air hoses, plows, ditchlights, horn, BLMA fans, lift rings, and free standing grabs. I mentioned the decals included 2009, but it's a GP50 so not an option here.
-They will all have identical features. So for example if I decide to do BLMA fans, they all will have BLMA fans.

[Denver Road Doug]

So I'm kind of at the "don't know what I don't know" stage right now. I am certainly open to suggestions/recommendations. This post will represent an ongoing Bill of Materials that I will update as the project progresses. If you have ideas for detail parts or techniques I'm all ears. I plan to use whatever I can throw at these locos from BLMA, et al. I'm especially interested in upgrading the fans and using freestanding grabs, etc. (see e-mail above) If you see something that would work better than what is here, tell me! I may or may not choose to go that route but I would certainly entertain any suggestions for improvement. (this goes for paint selection, too which is right up there with religion and politics for some folks....hehe) So, here goes:

#2000 & #2003

Tru-Color Santa Fe Yellow TCP21
Tru-Color Via Blue TCP95
Highball Graphics Fort Worth & Western Locomotives Decal Set
Atlas 465201 Ph1B* w/DB GP35 Shell 
470207 or 460207 GP35 Walkway/Handrail Set
470208 or 460208 GP35 Sill
470202 or 460202 GP35 Cab
460217 GP35 Cab Light Shield
470203 or 460203 GP35 Window Glass
460206 GP35 Rear Headlight
470205 or 460205 GP35 Front Headlight
465201  ??? Had this part number written down but not sure what it is.
498200 GP38 Body Shell
BLMA #90 Lift Rings
BLMA Windshield Wipers
Miniatures By Eric NA4 Firecracker Antenna
Miniatures By Eric NH4 3 Chime Nathan Horn
Detail Associates dual headlight 8217


#2005

Tru-Color Santa Fe Yellow TCP21
Tru-Color Via Blue TCP95
Highball Graphics Fort Worth & Western Locomotives Decal Set
Atlas 498210 GP38 Body Shell
BLMA #90 Lift Rings
BLMA Windshield Wipers
Miniatures By Eric NA4 Firecracker Antenna
Miniatures By Eric NH4 3 Chime Nathan Horn
Detail Associates dual headlight 8217

Notes:
*2001 and 2003 are GP35 Phase 1c.  2000 is a GP35 Phase 1b. The engine door latch's are different.  Atlas only offers 1a and 1b and of the two 1b is closer to 1c according to research. http://www.atlasrr.com/pdf/PartsPDFs/NGP35Locomotive.pdf

[Denver Road Doug]

I have had a few inquire about the decals.  Per above, they are done by Highball Graphics, http://www.mgdecals.com but they are NOT a stock item. You will have to work with the owner to commission a run, but he was willing to do one set for me at a very reasonable price so I don't see any reason why he would not for others. The decals actually cover most of the early FWWR geeps, so I'm not limited to just the three I mentioned. This definitely opens up some options that I might exercise.  Here is a few other bits of info from the Highball Graphics website regarding their HO set http://www.mgdecals.com/L-200.htm which IS a stock item:

"This set will do 2 complete models in HO Scale.
2000 (GP-35 Carbody) Miss Molly
2001 (GP-35 Carbody) Niles City
2002 (GP-35 Carbody) Cowtown
2003 (GP-35 Carbody) General Worth
2004 (GP-38 Carbody) Comanche
2005 (GP-38 Carbody) Maj. Ripley Arnold
2006 (GP-40 Carbody) General Tarrant
2007 (GP-38-2 Carbody) B.B. Paddock
All units classified as GP-38, 38-2 or 38-3

Carobody is a Medium/Dark Blue top and bottom. Yellow Center section. Blue ends, sills, and pilots. Black fuel tank and trucks. Follow the above diagram for paint separations. There are 2 yellow V stripes on each end. Use prototype photos for color matching and alternate decal placement."

[Denver Road Doug]

OK, so I took my roof shot and broke it out and tried to identify everything I could.   I may have some of the stuff misidentified...like I said not much of a locomotive expert.  So, if you have any clarifications let 'em fly.   I know some of the details are probably not conducive to n-scale but I figured others in other scales might find use as well so I just kinda tried to identify as much as I could.


Original Photo by Wayne Snyder, Used With Permission.

1 Antenna (Firecracker?)
2 Antenna (Type?)
3 Anti-Skid Coating (or Rust?)
4 Plate (Name?)
5 Vent ?
6 Lift Ring
7 Lift Ring
8 Lift Ring
9 Housing Modification (Dimple/Hole/Bolt in middle?)
10 Housing Door (hinge on right?; Is there a door on both sides?)
11 Lift Ring
12 Lift Ring?
13 Lift Ring
14 Lift Ring?
___________________________________________


Original Photo by Wayne Snyder, Used With Permission.

21 Dynamic Brake Modification
22 Anti-Skid Coating (or Rust?)
23 Exhaust
24 Spark Arrestor?
25 Exhaust
26 Spark Arrestor?
27 Horn (Type?)
28 Fan (Type?)
29 Fan (Type?)
30 Fan (Type?)
31 Fan (Type?)
32 Lift Ring
33 Lift Ring
34 Lift Ring
35 Lift Ring
36 Fan Grab Iron.  V or Curved? Trailing unit is curved.   CURVED: 2001,2002,2003,2005,2007,2008,2010, ?  V-SHAPE: ?
___________________________________________


Original Photo by Wayne Snyder, Used With Permission.

40 Headlight : Detail Associates dual headlight 8217 (planned for now)
41 Number Boards
42 Sunshade (Track only)
43 Windows (2-pane sliding on side; black gasket safety glass on front)
44 Mirror
45 Windshield Wiper
46 Windshield Wiper
47 Windshield Wiper
48 Windshield Wiper
49 Door
50 Cab Panel1
51 Cab Panel2
52 Vent ?
53 Light?
54 Battery Panel?
55 Ratchet Hand Brake
56 Step
57 Kick Panel?
58 Side Cab Handrail
59 Nose Grab Iron, Top
60 Anti-Skid Coating
61 Sand Fill ?
62 Headlight Blank
63 Nose Grab Iron, Front x2
64 Grab Iron
65 Receptacle, Red/F-Side
66 Ditchlights
67 Trainline Hose
68 Steps x3
69 Pilot
70 Front Handrail
71 Chain
72 Nose Doors ?
73 Receptacle, White/E-Side
74 Cut Lever
75 Platform
76 MU Cables
77 Coupler
___________________________________________

Not all of the units will have the exact same details maybe, but this is a good start.

[Denver Road Doug]

So what I need help with is just identifying/confirming my labels in the previous post, and tips/ideas about detail parts.   As I said, I'm not in a hurry, and I just want to try and learn a little along the way.   So if this kinda thing interests you, fire away!   

***********************************************

SUPERDETAILING Brainstorming

Roof Questions:
-Fan sizes?
-Tapered Fan (Item 28 in the photo diagram)?
-"V" "spark arrestors" (Item 26 in the photo diagram)??? over exhaust vents? expecting to fabricate out of brass sheet
-Antenna (Item 2 in the photo diagram)?
-Nose headlight fill plate? (Item 62 in the photo diagram) Attempt 1, I have purchased some .020x.040 styrene strip and till cut out a notch and fill with the styrene.
-Horn type? (Item 27 in the photo diagram)

Pilot Questions:
-MU Receptacles?
-Cut lever type?
-Step platform between units?
Other questions:
-Handrails? Metal or plastic?
-Grab irons? Sizes needed?
-Bell?

Plows
2000: Yes, as of 2003; No, by ????
2001: Yes, as of 2003,4; No, by ????
2002: Yes, as of 2004; No, by ????
2003: Yes, as of 2003; No, by ????
2004: Yes, as of 2003,4; No, by ????
2005: Yes, as of 2003; No, by ????
2006: Yes, as of 2003; No, by ????
2007: Yes, as of 2003; No, by ????
1500: No, by 2003
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Useful links:
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=20861

2000
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=136524&nseq=42

2001
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=177403&nseq=43

2002
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=50854&nseq=48

2003
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=7706&nseq=19

2004
Front View http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=110731&nseq=0
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=136523&nseq=41

2005
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=7703&nseq=18

2006
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=57078&nseq=44

1500
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=9827&nseq=22
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=24279&nseq=29
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=62389&nseq=53
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=122619&nseq=213
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[Philip H]

Doug,
First dumb question - what scale is this?

[Denver Road Doug]

Ha, oops....that's a very good question!   I'm building them in N-scale.  But I suppose a lot of the information will be scale independent.

I changed the title to reflect this.

I will also be updating the list to include a fourth locomotive.   I purchased a couple GP7 Santa Fe conversions from Mark4, and at this point I'm planning on adding FWWR #1500 into the mix.   I may have to customize some decals to get there, but I'm at least gonna detail and paint it for now.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=1462&nseq=8

[Philip H]

ok, thanks.

First, I'd recommend getting a new color for your arrows and numbers - it doesn't show up well enough against the green to make everything out.

Second, flat plates are generally best done in flat styrene - I use 0.005in stock that comes in big sheets as For Sale signs at Home Depot and the like.

Third, your catalog of detail parts is a good one, but it is generally easier to look for the detail sets for your make of locomotive then to source the details separately.  Both Gold Metal Models and BLMA make sets that will be your friend for this build.

Fourth, if you can find lots of Sunrise Enterprise details on eBay or at a show, they will fill in your holes.  If I get a chance tonight I'll try to make a list with specific suggestions, but if not, google can easily help you.

[Spades]

Doug

They look like ex SP GP-35's    BLMA and Gold Medal models make just about everything you need.  Check out N Scale Supply catalog page for pictures of the details.  The air filter is easy to make with styrene.  As for the fan #28 take a look at GMM set 160-40 for the GP-18.  For headlight # 40 Detail Associates dual headlight 8217, the photo is rough but the actual part is a crisp casting.  As for the nose notch sans headlight #62, If you have an IM SP TM you get lines and dimension from there, and the   #5 vent can be shaved off the  GP35 shell.  You probably already knew that.  Look forward to seeing the completed model.

Greg

Edit I managed to miss Doug's 4th post

[flight2000]

Wow, timely thread as I have a request to build an FWWR GP50 - #2008 PANTHER CITY.   I'm using the LN-252 set since he wants the updated version with the solid sill stripes.

He's not asking for quite the level of detail you are going with, but it'll have most of the bigger features. 

Anyone know of a close match for the blue that I can get in acrylic?  Can't get the True-Line Colors shipped overseas... 

Brian

[Denver Road Doug]

Gents, thank you for your responses.   For everyone, please note that I am updating my prior posts so that they are more organized and with current info.   Also, I will continue to update the Bill of Materials, superdetailing brainstorming, and "interesting links" areas on the original posts as well as I collect more research.

Philip, I put some higher contrasting numbers so hopefully that helps some.  I have some Sunrise parts, Miniatures By Eric horn and firecracker antenna, BLMA fans et al, and misc other parts from my parts bin.  I believe most of the parts I'm seeing in the photos above can be found.   Part of it is getting the "right"/closest parts available, (i.e. the plows, horn, antennas, etc.) and part is just me trying to learn what is what.   I would especially like to know the correct names for the parts I have labeled. (so, if I'm Googling, I have to know the right name first)

Greg, thanks for the tip on GMM set 160-40.  I was really wanting to find an etched metal representation of that so hopefully that's the ticket.   Regarding the dual headlight, is that simply a replacement for the stock headlight with greater detail? (like, the latches I assume?)   Or maybe closer to actual size?  I had mentally kinda checked the headlight off my list, but I'm certainly willing to upgrade if it's worthwhile.


Stock GP-35 Headlight

Also, you mentioned shaving the #5 vent off the GP35 shell...since I'm starting with a GP35 to begin with, it's already there, right?  Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean.   Is there an etched vent available then?

Brian, not sure about the blue.  I'm not even 1oo% convinced that the two Tru-Color paints I posted are the best option.  But so far it's been recommended by someone that actually made one and the photos looked pretty good.   Since it is "Via Blue" I would start there (and same with ATSF Yellow) ... even if it's not the Tru-Color paint, I have to think Via blue is available in other brands.    Also--and I know this probably won't help you--but on Tuesday I went into a hobby shop that is supposedly the only one in the area that carries Tru-Color, and the owner told me that he put Tru-Color in contact with the FWWR and they are going to release actual FWWR paint colors late this year.

[flight2000]

Doug, that is true about True-Color releasing the FWWR colors later this summer.  I think they have it listed as July of 13 on their website if I remember correctly.  I saw a guy that did one in HO scale and he said he used Polly Scale CSX Yellow and T-C Via Blue.  Looked pretty good to me, but as far as I can tell, T-C is the only one that makes it. 

Haven't found anything in acrylic for Via Blue, so I'm going to take a look at Amtrak Blue and then develop a darker variation from there.   May not be 100% accurate, but will have to do for now.

Brian

[Spades]

Greg, thanks for the tip on GMM set 160-40.  I was really wanting to find an etched metal representation of that so hopefully that's the ticket.   Regarding the dual headlight, is that simply a replacement for the stock headlight with greater detail? (like, the latches I assume?)   Or maybe closer to actual size?  I had mentally kinda checked the headlight off my list, but I'm certainly willing to upgrade if it's worthwhile.  I would just keep the headlight as is


Stock GP-35 Headlight

Also, you mentioned shaving the #5 vent off the GP35 shell...since I'm starting with a GP35 to begin with, it's already there, right?  Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean.   Is there an etched vent available then?  Senior moment, I was thinking GP38 or 40-2 with a raised box over the air filters, located between the dynamic brake and cab. I forgot the GP35 was flat

[Robbman]

Stock GP-35 Headlight

That half round bump under the headlight housing... that's a phase feature on the GP35s.  FWWR 2002 doesn't have it, so you'll want to file the bottom there flush.