New Structure Kits

[Sokramiketes]

Brick patterned styrene sheets are not cheap either plus you have the pesky problem of that open half brick along the edge that you'd have to cover. The reason I use the .060 acrylic is because it is the main plant. When the first 4 walls are glued together with the roof you could set a couple of bricks on it and it would hold them easily. If I had to try to tab the styrene, no easy task with that drastic of a pattern, and use it as the main plant it would be so flimsy the quality of the structure would go down immediately.

My husband keeps picking this thing up and saying he wants to show it to people around here. He also wants it in Z. Like David said in one of his posts, if you don't like it don't buy it. This has so many kitbashing possibilities that the less expensive it starts out the better it is for you guys who love to build.

I mentioned the method for laser cutting styrene because it didn't sound like you were familiar with the technique, not to imply that you should do the whole building in styrene.  Remember there have been lots of laser cutting companies dealing with the same intricacies for years.  CMR's kits would be good for you to learn from, as they create brick structures by layering brick sheet over the top of acrylic.  All the strength of the acrylic shell, with all the detail and fast cutting of preformed brick sheet. 

Regarding the open half bricks at the corner joints, well, it's something modelers just have to deal with.  Tab the acrylic substructure, and run the brick sheet right to the edge and be done. 

[Chris333]

I have a bunch of Branchline kits with some laser cut plastic sheets and I throw those sheets away because of the edges. It would be better is they just gave you a blank sheet and a #11 blade.

[Alaska Railroader]

I mentioned the method for laser cutting styrene because it didn't sound like you were familiar with the technique, not to imply that you should do the whole building in styrene.  Remember there have been lots of laser cutting companies dealing with the same intricacies for years.  CMR's kits would be good for you to learn from

OUCH, Mike. Did you not know? Surely David has mentioned it several times. I don't need to learn how to cut brick. I cut brick, and lots of it. All of the TBS kits are brick and I cut all of the masters. It isn't that I don't know HOW to cut brick, its that its very expensive to do if you don't make resin castings from it.
Everything you see cut on these first two photos was done on my laser.


Oh, I know brick... 
Karin

[John]

Game, Set, Match 

[Chris333]

I think Mike is talking about cutting styrene sheets with brick already on them.

[Dave Schneider]

I think Mike is talking about cutting styrene sheets with brick already on them.

That's the way I have been interpreting this as well.

Best wishes, Dave

[Sokramiketes]

OUCH, Mike. Did you not know? Surely David has mentioned it several times. I don't need to learn how to cut brick. I cut brick, and lots of it. All of the TBS kits are brick and I cut all of the masters. It isn't that I don't know HOW to cut brick, its that its very expensive to do if you don't make resin castings from it.
Everything you see cut on these first two photos was done on my laser.

Oh, I know brick... 
Karin

Karin, my goal in life is not to pick on you, I swear.

When did I say you didn't know how to raster brick?  I think I said "method for laser cutting styrene" like styrene or vinyl embossed brick sheets. 

Yes, your method can be expensive.  Look at Monster Model Works for even more expensive laser rastered brick where not only the mortar lines are rastered, but the brick faces as well.  It's exquisite and lots of people have done really delicate and artistic stuff with laser cutters.  Great.  But that's not what I was getting at.  I was saying that if laser time is at a premium, there are ways to laser cut the pre-embossed sheets that are less costly.  And it was mentioned that styrene melts and leaves a raised edge.  And I mentioned a way to reduce that effect. 

If you don't want to do it, fine.  But you're the one that threw down the gauntlet to improve on the *brick* structure by InterAction Enterprises.  I'm just trying to help you get up to speed with your competition.  There's nothing that is impossible for you to do with a laser, if you have the right techniques.  You thought the walls were weak and a little wavy on the InterAction kit, so you want to do it in acrylic... great.  Better bones.  But now you need to dress up the outside more than three layers of flat stock, and that's why multiple people have mentioned that buildings of this style really need brick detail. 

Unless of course you can market the current building for $5 instead of $25, or something.  But I really don't think it could possibly be that drastic of a price reduction when looking at your comps on the market. 

[Sokramiketes]

I have a bunch of Branchline kits with some laser cut plastic sheets and I throw those sheets away because of the edges. It would be better is they just gave you a blank sheet and a #11 blade.

Ugg, that vinyl sheet that they murdered is the worst.  The one kit I bought I used the windows and scratched everything else.  At least some of the walls were good templates for styrene!

[Sokramiketes]

Game, Set, Match 

And I still feel like I'm stuck in the twilight zone. 

[Alaska Railroader]

I think Mike is talking about cutting styrene sheets with brick already on them.

If this is so I need to know why anyone feels the need to have styrene laser cut, patterned or not? Especially when you only want straight lines that scissors or a blade can cut? I would think that if someone really wanted HO brick styrene sheet on their N scale building they could buy it and cut it out themselves. That is the beauty of styrene. A scratchbuilder can work on it so easily. The bricks cut for TBS were actual cuts rather than rastered. Rastering tends to melt styrene even easier unless you go twice at cooler settings. I have no desire to cut styrene, the cuts aren't near as sharp if cutting windows, doors, etc. out.  It costs more than other materials and the other materials cut crisp and clean. Please explain the fascination with laser cut styrene? The lines you see on the TBS buildings and the 3D stone could never happen in styrene. I just cannot go backwards. I apologize for any confusion. I need to realize that just because I understand something so clearly (lasering) it doesn't mean everyone automatically does too.

And I still feel like I'm stuck in the twilight zone. 

I guess this, and the speaking Japanese remarks led me to think you just might be picking on me Mike.

[Alaska Railroader]

OK, so I went over to InterAction Enterprises to see how they used styrene. Every one I opened up I saw that they also use what we call laserboard and they call resin impregnated board. You might want to ask them but I don't think they are laser cutting styrene. I was really curious to see how that worked out for them. We use that same stuff in .010", .015", .018", and .022". For brick, and most things, my favorite material is .030 plexiglass.

[Sokramiketes]

If this is so I need to know why anyone feels the need to have styrene laser cut, patterned or not? Especially when you only want straight lines that scissors or a blade can cut? I would think that if someone really wanted HO brick styrene sheet on their N scale building they could buy it and cut it out themselves. That is the beauty of styrene. A scratchbuilder can work on it so easily. The bricks cut for TBS were actual cuts rather than rastered. Rastering tends to melt styrene even easier unless you go twice at cooler settings. I have no desire to cut styrene, the cuts aren't near as sharp if cutting windows, doors, etc. out.  It costs more than other materials and the other materials cut crisp and clean. Please explain the fascination with laser cut styrene? The lines you see on the TBS buildings and the 3D stone could never happen in styrene. I just cannot go backwards. I apologize for any confusion. I need to realize that just because I understand something so clearly (lasering) it doesn't mean everyone automatically does too.

Probably everyone doesn't automatically understand laser cutting.  But I do, and you do, so we just need to figure out how to communicate here.

Ok, in my terminology anytime the laser goes through the sheet material is a cut, and anytime it stops at some other depth it's a "scribe" or a "raster". 

The fascination with cutting styrene sheets is that the sheets are available with the brick pattern already embossed on the sheet.  So you don't have to cut the individual bricks.  Supplying a finished kit would be a goal of anyone, I would have thought.  And the pre-cut styrene brick embossed sheets would be a selling feature.  Finally, since you've noted the issues with cutting styrene, ie it's penchant to melt, that's why the natural rubber based adhesive tape that started this hoopla was mentioned.  It goes on the sheets before cutting, like you already do with the adhesive backings you use.  Then peels off after the parts are cut revealing a very minimal melted edge. 

I would love it if you would raster brick on the acrylic and call it a day.  Yes it will be cleaner, I really do understand all this.  But you said that's too expensive and time consuming.  So styrene brick sheet overlays are another option.  Lets move to pictures which may help more:



This isn't the best photo, but it's what I have handy.  This is the US Post Office annex for the Milwaukee Road's Everette Street Depot in Milwaukee.  It was cut by CMR.  The white you'll recognize as acrylic sheet.  It forms the basic shell, the doors, the windows, everything that needs strength and clean cuts.  The brown then is Plastruct brick sheet.  There are others, and I believe the Plastruct might be vinyl instead of styrene, but the same principles apply.  The Plastruct brick sheet has 3M self adhesive sheet on the back, is laser cut to size, and put on as an applied layer to the acrylic shell.  Strong, straight, and brick detailed at an affordable price with very little laser time.  There's more laser time in the windows than the two-layer walls.

I guess this, and the speaking Japanese remarks led me to think you just might be picking on me Mike.

Those were both general broadcast comments because more than one person seems to be misconstruing my posts as of late.

[Sokramiketes]

OK, so I went over to InterAction Enterprises to see how they used styrene. Every one I opened up I saw that they also use what we call laserboard and they call resin impregnated board. You might want to ask them but I don't think they are laser cutting styrene. I was really curious to see how that worked out for them. We use that same stuff in .010", .015", .018", and .022". For brick, and most things, my favorite material is .030 plexiglass.

They are not using styrene because they have time to laser-etch/scribe/raster the brick into appropriate material. 

Here's a build thread for the InterAction kit which provides more insight into your "competition":
http://www.janbouli.com/?p=weld.html

[peteski]

If this is so I need to know why anyone feels the need to have styrene laser cut, patterned or not? Especially when you only want straight lines that scissors or a blade can cut? I would think that if someone really wanted HO brick styrene sheet on their N scale building they could buy it and cut it out themselves. That is the beauty of styrene. A scratchbuilder can work on it so easily.

Why? Because I rather have a pre-cut kit of a structure (ready to assemble) than scratch build one (or add hand-cut embossed brick material) to an incomplete laser-cut kit.  By incomplete, I mean that it includes the structural parts but not the outside "skin".

When I buy a laser-cut kit, I expect it to be ready-to-assemble. Otherwise, I would just buy a true old-fashioned craftsman kit, which consists of drawings and bunch of raw material.  I'm too busy (or lazy?) to want to deal with a craftsman kit. I rather buy a ready-to-assemble laser-cut kit which only needs assembly and painting.

To be honest, I would be ok if you used a laserboard instead of plastic. I assume that laserboard is as stable as styrene. That would be much better than wood (which is very unstable and it has very rough surface which is a poor representation of masonry or metal).  But I admit that plastic (acrylic) is a much better choice when making one-of models or masters for resin castings.

It seems like your company is geared towards being commissioned to build one-of models (or parts for them) or to make masters for other companies.  I mistakenly thought that Stonebridge Models would produce ready-to-assembled models like the Blair Line, American Model Builders, N Scale Architect, Branchline, or similar companies.

BTW, there is embossed brick material out there which is  N scale (not oversize H0 bricks).

[Alaska Railroader]

I mistakenly thought that Stonebridge Models would produce ready-to-assembled models

We do http://www.stonebridgemodels.com/index.htm?c=z_struct

David is pretty much the only person I make one-of's for. Well, besides ship parts. Otherwise all of my kits have everything needed to complete them. Several have been reviewed in print.

Its just that all I made, basically, was Z scale and I am finding that going up in scale even to N can take more material and laser time than I had thought. Doing little buildings for so long got me stuck in the mindset that you can get by without the smallest of details either because you can't or you don't have to. In N scale I want to. And I think N scalers expect it.

The building I just made would never go out without its "skin". Apparently it just isn't the skin some of you wanted.