Shapeways FM switchers: Cleaning FUD

[katfudgirl]

I'm not sure about orientation request - when we plan a tray we take into consideration the needs of the customer, for instance with trains- we know that you guys prefer even and smooth surfaces so we tray to plan them in such a that way the 'frost' effect happens on the inside of the train and under any over roof overhang. This is standard procedure- it doesnt always make for the most efficent trays as far as the CC3 count - which can be difficult to manage during times when we have a high volume of orders. However, it is our priority to provide a quality product, so I imagine that as our capacity grows, we would like to have that as an option.

We currently have projet printers in UHD and HD. If they do come out with higher res FUD printers again, I definitely think it would be worth looking into- although its dependent on a lot of other things as well. As far as any other HD stuff... well, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to speak on behalf of the materials department, but I will say: things are happening, and there is more to come soon.

Having the items shipped in wax would certainly make my life easier. and on a 1:1 basis I dont see why I couldn't do this for a few of you. I'll ask my peeps.

Yes, I realize that there have been issues with flat parts. Sometimes this is due to wall thickness, and sometimes its the fault of the post-processing. I've put an order in for some new equipment that should hopefully fix this problem. If its happened in the past few months it was probably my bad, I honestly didn't notice some of it - sometimes people model parts to 'look' warped and sometimes things are just genuinely warped. It can get confusing, but I've got the hang of being able to tell the difference now.

And thanks for the note on the Motsenbockers, I'm looking into it rn.

[Lemosteam]

Welcome katfudgirl!

  I am most impressed that you would subject yourself to this forum  and I also think that this is smart business, even if off the record.  Direct customer feedback, after sorting out the whining, will be very beneficial for you and shapeways.

I have some questions as well:

Is the material fully cured when removed from the tray?

After wax removal, is there any further curing process?

what direction delivers the best surface finish (least amount of surface striation) before processing, I.e. assuming the z direction is perpendicular to the tray, is it best to have a flat or curved surface normal to the z axis or parallel to it?

Added: does shape ways currently use a 3d systems machine now?

Thank you in advance for your responses!

[bbussey]

Welcome, katfudgirl.

Heptane dissolves wax thoroughly without harming the plastic.  It is available in the States as "Bestine" in most arts/supplies stores.

It's good to hear that the items are not being stacked in the tray.

[katfudgirl]

hi bbussey!

Heptane doesn't eat away at the plastic like other chemicals, however it does take away the transparency and makes the product white, which is essentially a different product than what we offer... but, I think its worth having as an option. Im actively working on this

Lemosteam,

The curing happens while the parts are being printed, and is fully completed when the tray is finished. There are no further curing done on my end.

As for the direction, I have an idea of this answer but I'm going to run it by one of our planning specialists and see what he has to say. I will get back to you on it!

[bbussey]

hi bbussey!

Heptane doesn't eat away at the plastic like other chemicals, however it does take away the transparency and makes the product white, which is essentially a different product than what we offer... but, I think its worth having as an option. Im actively working on this.

Katfudgirl,

The reason the material turns white is because it is the wax that allows the material to appear transparent.  Having it turn white is a good thing, as it means all the wax has been removed.

[DKS]

Heptane doesn't eat away at the plastic like other chemicals, however it does take away the transparency and makes the product white, which is essentially a different product than what we offer...

Welcome. The transparency is due to residual wax. The problem with leaving any residual wax is that it makes finishing very difficult; paints of almost any type tend to have problems adhering, and one often ends up applying too much paint to compensate, which obscures fine detail. White is the natural color of the product, and seeing it turn white is an indication that it's completely clean.

Edit: Funny, Bryan and I both posted at exactly the same time, with exactly the same message...

[bbussey]

Edit: Funny, Bryan and I both posted at exactly the same time, with exactly the same message...

Ah, but you stated it much better than I. 

[DKS]

One other observation about heptane. A couple of people have reported to me that it attacked the plastic on some very fine parts. Actually, I studied this issue quite carefully. Some extremely fine parts are laced with bits of wax; when this was dissolved, the integrity of the part was compromised, and it fell apart. This can serve as an indicator that the part dropped below what should be the lower limit of cross-section dimension, and thus the part should be revised.

[peteski]

I have a general question (to whoever can answer this).
My experience with RP objects is only with ESM's White Tower burgers building and an old and crude vehicles from a company that is out of business (I think their name was Make My Model?)

I was testing the resin's resistance to various solvents I have in my shop.  I tried Heptane, VM&P Naphtha, Acetone, MEK, Toluene, 99% Isopropanol, Generic lacquer thinner and Methylene Chloride.  None of those chemicals seems to attack (melt) the resin on the RP pieces I have. Is the resin used in FUD process different that the ones used on the objects I have?

I was hoping that I could find a solvent which would soften/melt the resin so I could either spray the RP parts with the solvent or brush the solvent on them to slightly melt the surface and smooth out the rough surfaces.

[katfudgirl]

Hm, really? So you're saying the material was never intended to have that kind of transparency? I guess I would be confused by this because when some the models come out of the printer, they are not entirely covered by the wax. There are parts that only have wax on the bottom, and the plastic material that is above it is naturally clear, even having never come into contact with wax at all.

[DKS]

Hm, really? So you're saying the material was never intended to have that kind of transparency? I guess I would be confused by this because when some the models come out of the printer, they are not entirely covered by the wax. There are parts that only have wax on the bottom, and the plastic material that is above it is naturally clear, even having never come into contact with wax at all.

I suppose I should have been more clear (no pun intended): the surface will naturally be white, owing to the method of depositing the material; in the same way that clear glass can have a frosted surface. If the surface of the RP material was polished, it would likely tend to be clear, but the method used to build the model will always leave a fine-grained irregular surface. Hope that makes more sense.

[peteski]

White is the natural color of the product, and seeing it turn white is an indication that it's completely clean.

The RP parts I have (not from Shapeways) are made from transparent resin. It is not crystal clear but if the surfaces of the object were not in contact with wax during printing, the parts are definitely transparent.   If the resin itself was opaque white, then it would look white with or without the wax being on the surface.

Where the RP part's surface is rough (on the surfaces contacting wax during printing) the uneven surface makes the resin appear white (just like frosted glass would look).  If some of the wax is left in those rough areas, it fills the rough surface smooth and makes the item look somewhat transparent (same thing would happen if you were to wet the surface of frosted glass - it changes from white to semi- transparent).

EDIT: I not at home now but when I get back I can take a photo of the areas on the White Tower building which are naturally transparent (because there was no wax touching that areas during printing).  The item has been completely de-waxed.

[katfudgirl]

Peteski, pictures would be great.

Thanks for the tips, this is all very informative! You guys are awesome

[Chris333]

They do call it "frosted" ultra detail. So yeah it should be white.

[wcfn100]

The reason the material turns white is because it is the wax that allows the material to appear transparent.  Having it turn white is a good thing, as it means all the wax has been removed.

Let's not assume that's the only way to have all the wax removed.  Especially when that way sucks.

I'm open to any ideas that don't include Bestine or similar.

Jason