Staples doing 3D Printing In Store

[CoalPorter]

Something must have gotten real simple if Staples workers
can use it. ?

[Sokramiketes]

Someone please show me a macro image of a diesel radiator fan on an N Scale shell produced by any 3D printer that is as clean as an injection molded part and I'll agree.

Must be a trick question since the Mark4Designs shells that were produced via Perfactory utilized etched fans and grills.     Perfactory is what you are looking for and is guaranteed much better than what you were using years ago.  Someone else mentioned a bad Perfactory part, but that was likely user error or less than optimal resolution.

Here is a Z scale flatcar that was mastered via Perfactory before being cast in brass.  The rivets are clean.

[Lemosteam]

Sokramiketes, I was specifically referring to any type of 3D printing and was not promoting Mark4Designs or their methods.  I have seen examples on this and other forums of full shells and in the detail-congested areas of the models are typically clogged with excess material, loss of resolution and is they are not very "clean".  I have yet to see a printed model without any striations from any system.

I would love to see a close-up of a perfactory part.  Anybody got an image they can crop so it does not give away their design?

Your example is very nice, thank you for posting.  Do you know how much cleanup/sanding (if any) went into the master before the brass model was cast?  Do you have a picture of the master?

I am trying to better understand the perfactory process more as well and it seems that it may be very different than the slice and print method that most systems use but there is not a lot of specific info out there.

[SkipGear]

Must be a trick question since the Mark4Designs shells that were produced via Perfactory utilized etched fans and grills.     Perfactory is what you are looking for and is guaranteed much better than what you were using years ago.  Someone else mentioned a bad Perfactory part, but that was likely user error or less than optimal resolution.

Here is a Z scale flatcar that was mastered via Perfactory before being cast in brass.  The rivets are clean.

That flat is nice but is also for the most part all right angles and flat surfaces, very easy to limit the effects of layering. I'm not saying the perfactory part that I had in hand wasn't nice but it certainly wasn't surface that was equal to a molded finished part. In the conversation with the customer, we talked about Shapeways and he knew exactly why he paid extra to find a place to make the part with a perfactory machine. He even commented that it was the latest generation unit and that they improved the resolution a bit more. The part was a very complex and gradual 3d curve so it showed any limitations of the process easily. The finish was still not as good as he needed.

[robert3985]

I'm sorry, Robert, but the above comment triggers my bullsh^t detector.  "The infinite vale of pi demands that any arc be made up of increasingly tiny straight lines"?  Umm, first, pi is not infinite, it is 3.14159....  It is irrational, which may be what you meant, but it's definitely not infinite.  Second, in differential geometry, the concept of an infinitely differentiable manifold exactly describes what you would think of as a perfectly smooth surface.  There is no serious mathematician in the world that would claim that "any arc must be made up of increasingly tiny straight lines".  Certainly in the physical world, things get tricky at the atomic scale, but that has little or nothing to do with the value of pi.

The rest of your post is fine though.    Sorry to go OT, carry on.

Most of post deleted because Gary is correct.  He's the mathematician and his rebuttal and explanations were very interesting and educational.  I enjoyed them!

No steaks tonight, instead,  humble pie.....

[nkalanaga]

To stir things up further, I would say that a perfect curve is impossible.  Since atoms have a finite size, it would be impossible to build layers thinner than slightly less than one atomic diameter, of whatever atoms you use.  The "slightly less" is because they can be stacked in offset layers, rather than on top of each other, but that will also result in greater roughness at the edges.  For plastics, the minimum resolution would be greater, roughly equal to the size of a molecule of the plastic.

On the other hand, if we had that resolution, we wouldn't be having this discussion...

[wcfn100]

I would love to see a close-up of a perfactory part.

If no one has done so i can get a shot in a couple days, all I have online is this box car door.



I have a GP30 nose that has some rounding on the hood I can get a pic of.

Jason

[Chris333]

Look at the green photo on this page:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56985-3d-printing-the-current-state-of-the-art/page__st__25
That is a round steam loco boiler and it looks great.

http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/images/3D%20Build%202.jpg

Expensive though. 

http://www.finelineprototyping.com/

[robert3985]

Look at the green photo on this page:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56985-3d-printing-the-current-state-of-the-art/page__st__25
That is a round steam loco boiler and it looks great.

http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/images/3D%20Build%202.jpg

Expensive though. 

http://www.finelineprototyping.com/

I notice non-striated "shine" on the curved surfaces of the steam and sand domes, which indicates an excellent surface rendition.

Yes, the price is about double that of Perfactory products I have seen posted before here.  Perhaps it is the thick cross section of the 1/87th scale part, and parts with considerably less volume would cost considerably less. 

Because of the price, it is best for a lot of extremely small parts, or for making masters for molds to cast either in resin, or producing high temperature, high pressure parts to make vulcanized rubber molds for injecting wax masters for investment casting.

Just thinkin'...

[Hyperion]

It should be noted that FineLine finishes their components prior to shipping them out.  They're a prototyping company, designed to produce marketable products, not a manufacturing one, so they want their product to go out in a condition that makes it highly presentable.  Per images on their site, the "Unfinished" components have some (very) slightly noticeable striations and other defects that are removed prior to shipping.  Still getting pretty nitpicky though.

[Chris333]

Something that might cost about $35 with Shapeways FUD would cost about $300 with the Finelines micro fine green.  The parts in the link above were $455.

Like I said when I can walk in Staples and get that good of a result for $35 I'll get excited. Someday that might be possible, but not now.

http://www.finelineprototyping.com/perch/resources/1274196382mfgbrochurecropped.jpg

[GaryHinshaw]

Hahaha...I got a smile and a chuckle out of this Gary. Why am I not surprised that you would disagree with me? 

Let's take this outside, so as not to disturb the patrons.   

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=28036.0

[Scottl]

Something that might cost about $35 with Shapeways FUD would cost about $300 with the Finelines micro fine green.  The parts in the link above were $455.

This is my point back on the first page.  The technology is getting there or perhaps already there in niche areas.  Once it goes mainstream, then we get our parts for $35 from Staples or some new Shapeways-like company.  My guess is that in 5 years until you can get   that  "gotta have it" part for something more than $35, but a lot less than now.  This is what the global economy is very good at doing with technological innovation, and we will be beneficiaries in this way.

I suspect we will think injection molding is so 20th century very soon!

[DKS]

Something that might cost about $35 with Shapeways FUD would cost about $300 with the Finelines micro fine green.  The parts in the link above were $455.

Like I said when I can walk in Staples and get that good of a result for $35 I'll get excited. Someday that might be possible, but not now.

http://www.finelineprototyping.com/perch/resources/1274196382mfgbrochurecropped.jpg

One thought immediately comes to mind... use the Finelines process to make a master. Then cast it in resin, which we've seen can produce perfectly acceptable results. Now you can have the power of the world's finest 3D rendering for sale at a fraction of the cost of FUD.

[Lemosteam]

Finally!  Thanks for the links and pics Chris333! 

I am impressed and I'm sure there is some level of post-creation cleanup. 

http://www.finelineprototyping.com/why-fineline/

DKS, for me I am not thinking any low-volume production.  I want to use my designs, make a few parts for myself or maybe some fellow PRR nuts, and be done with it.   I think this is the origin of the thread, the Staples business model.  I'm not interested in turning everything I design into a business, at least not yet.  I actually like the Shapeway business model of allowing others to purchase a design with a bit of profit going to the designer as compensation for his or her time.

Wish Shapeways made the perfactory process available in the same fashion- maybe they will.  Our only hope now is that the costs of perfactory quality will come down to a mass consumer level.  If FUD is any example methinks it will!