Best Dullcote for N scale

[Hyperion]

The MSDS sheets for both "Dullcote Lacquer" and the ModelMaster "Lusterless (Flat) Clear" are 100% the same and they are chemically identical, non-yellowing, lacquers.

Now, Testors' Floquil Flat is quite different as it is a Spray Enamel.  That is the only true Clear Flat Enamel that Testors still carries, and it carries a warning on it that exposure to UV will cause it to Yellow. 

Additionally, for Gloss Clears, Testors carries a line of Auto-oriented products, those will actually Yellow a light color right out of the jar without even exposing it to UV light because the resin they use in them is slightly Yellow-ish.  Testors warns against using an Enamel Gloss over any Light or Metallic colors.  Period.

In my experience -- just use DullCote or GlossCote or the identical ModelMaster variants.  They're proven safe over just about any surface as long as it is thoroughly dry prior to spraying.  DullCote seems far more readily available in Spray than bottle, and the ModelMaster line Lusterless Flat is usually available in Bottle more readily than Spray.  So choose whichever you prefer depending on your application method.  For Gloss I actually prefer Future floor polish personally and there's no risk at all with that.

[Kisatchie]

...For Gloss I actually prefer Future floor polish personally and there's no risk at all with that.

Hmm... what about scuffs
from dark heels...?

[peteski]

Mark, thanks for doing the MSDS research. It confirmed what I suspected about the Model Master stuff.

[ednadolski]

For N scale "dullcote", obviously you'd want a finer finish than you'd need for HO or larger scales - am I thinking correctly here?

I use either the Dullcote or Model Master Lusterless from the rattle can, regardless of scale.

Ed

[Chris333]

This topic has gone flat 

[peteski]

This topic has gone flat 

 
No, it has turned "punny".

[GaryHinshaw]

This topic has gone flat 

Allow me to rescue (read: hijack) it then.  What do folks recommend for getting a nice gloss (or satin) finish when spray painting acrylics like Polly Scale?  Usually when I spray, the finish ends up pretty flat and I have to gloss coat it separately, but I have rarely achieved what I consider a "factory finish".  Is this a sign of too much air (pressure and/or ratio)?

Thanks and sorry for the hijack,
Gary

[peteski]

All the Polly Scale paints I've used have flat finish by design (brush-painted or airbrushed). Similar to the finish Floquil RR colors have. For more shine they need a clear satin or gloss coat. So what you're doing is correct.

[Sokramiketes]

While the Model Master version of dullcoat has a finer spray pattern, it's not needed.  Get the regular Testor's dullcoat and spray it on wet and heavy.  If you try to mist it on you'll just get splotchy patterns.  Wet and heavy works, you just need to get over your fear that any detail will be obscured by build up.  It's not worth breaking out the airbrush. 

[Hyperion]

Allow me to rescue (read: hijack) it then.  What do folks recommend for getting a nice gloss (or satin) finish when spray painting acrylics like Polly Scale?  Usually when I spray, the finish ends up pretty flat and I have to gloss coat it separately, but I have rarely achieved what I consider a "factory finish".  Is this a sign of too much air (pressure and/or ratio)?

Thanks and sorry for the hijack,
Gary

As I'm also a scale modeler in other realms (armor, aircraft, ships, etc), I use what virtually all scale modelers seem to use, and that's Future Floor Polish.  In the States it's "Pledge with "FUTURE" shine"; can be found just about anywhere, but make sure it says "FUTURE" on it somewhere. 

Sounds weird at first, but the stuff is amazing.  Thin as hell, self-leveling, hard as nails, never yellows, and can be cleaned off your brushes or airbrush or thinned (if need be) with standard household ammonia cleaner (Windex -- don't worry the blue in the Windex won't show on the model if you thin with it).   Sprays right out of the jar (some guys even brush it, I never tried it), and for a few bucks you'll have enough to last you a lifetime.

Dip plastic windows in it and they'll look like glass.  It'll even fill in scratches and stuff on them and prevent them from getting clouded if you use CA around them.  I use it as a barrier agent between acrylics and enamels.  It's thin and very smooth nature makes it the best decaling surface you can get and it's also good for washes and filters.  In fact since it's so much easier to work on top of, I actually use a coat of Future before I do anything to a painted model.  Even if I want it Flat afterwards, I'll lay down the Future, do the decalling/weathering, then do the DullCote as the last thing.  Though I've never tried it, since you're doing everything on top of the Future, you can apparently strip the model down to just the paint by scrubbing with Ammonia, if you were to screw up on some weathering and wanted to go back to your paint job.

[GaryHinshaw]

Thanks gents.  I have used Future (in the past... though not as extensively as Mark) and really liked it.  I will continue to do so (in the future) when I break out the airbrush again.  At one point I tried mixing it with paint directly, but that wasn't very successful at producing a gloss finish from the get-go, so I'll keep on using it as an after-coat.

Thanks again,
-gfh

[pnolan48]

When Floquil was really a nasty substance that attacked plastic (say in the late 1970s), I brought a small bottle of its thinner down to my local auto paint store (I was doing a lot of prototype Italian cars then), and had the counterman smell it. He identified it immediately. I then bought a gallon for $20, when the thinner was going for about 40X that cost in small cans at a LHS.

So, does anyone know what dullcoat really is, so I can buy a gallon of it? A 500' long 60' beam ship takes a lot of dullcoat! Yes, I use gloss paint, so I can identify defects. Can I identify it by MSDS? I don't have a local friendly auto paint store any longer.

[peteski]

When (Pledge with) Future gets mentioned on any forum I feel compelled to post a link to http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html
Highly recommended read!

[Sokramiketes]

When Floquil was really a nasty substance that attacked plastic (say in the late 1970s), I brought a small bottle of its thinner down to my local auto paint store (I was doing a lot of prototype Italian cars then), and had the counterman smell it. He identified it immediately. I then bought a gallon for $20, when the thinner was going for about 40X that cost in small cans at a LHS.

So, does anyone know what dullcoat really is, so I can buy a gallon of it? A 500' long 60' beam ship takes a lot of dullcoat! Yes, I use gloss paint, so I can identify defects. Can I identify it by MSDS? I don't have a local friendly auto paint store any longer.

Thinners are pretty universal, but Dullcoat is "paint".  So no one else is likely to have the exact formula.  Now, can you find another clear flat in a lacquer base?  Sure. 

[mmagliaro]

So we are in agreement, except one thing: Dull and Gloss cotes are lacquers, not enamels. But they must use a solvent which is mild enough not to affect enamels (if it is used over enamels).  The other Testors clear (which yellows) is in their enamels line.

That probably depends on luck, the enamel type, and how heavy you lay it on.  I had some enamel custom-mixed
in a paint store a while back to repaint my Rapido NP passenger car (so the upper half would be the proper NP dark green
instead of almost black).   It sprayed beautifully from an airbrush.  But even after 48 hours of drying and it feeling very hard with no
tack at all, a quick hit of Dullcote destroyed it because it's an enamel and the laquer dullcote crinkled it right up.

Dullcote probably works over enamel "depending", but I wouldn't risk it.    I got some matte finish urethane spray
and used that.  Did a good job.   Clear finishes do not really affect details, as far as I can see.  I am not a paint expert,
but with no real pigment in the clear finish to worry about, I don't see how it could be "ground" too coarse to affect
N Scale details.  The only issue would be if it's really thick.