Cisco Bridges: a new layout concept

[Scottl]

Gary, this second and detailed example of the securing the points is different from what you initially showed.  I gathered with the first you used the holes in the points and some wire to solder them to a PC tie.  Then, you used the proto87 point clips mounted in a styrene tie to secure the points closer to the divergence point.  I find that easier to contemplate (hence prefer it!) but I gather you prefer the wire/soldering to two separate ties? 

[GaryHinshaw]

Gary, this second and detailed example of the securing the points is different from what you initially showed.

I assume you are referring to Robert's post here, right?  He is using pins through the rail base in both throw bars, whereas I am just using pins in the one closest to the frog, and  yes I am using the pre-drilled holes in the points.  Basically the pinned bar is the structure that pulls the points open and soldering the base keeps them upright; the clipped throw bar pushes the points closed, and keeps the points level with the stock rail.

I gather you prefer the wire/soldering to two separate ties? 

I'm not sure I follow, I am using two separate ties...  Here is a bit of background: my initial method used two clipped bars, like so:



Here both bars extend under the stock rail to keep the points level with the stock rail.  The base of the points are soldered to the left bar in the photo, but the joint is very small, and there is no other mechanical connection for pulling the point open in this scheme.  At one point I had one of these joints fail and I was unable to successfully re-solder it in place, so I decided the pinned bars were a better solution.  Also, with the pinned bar, I trim its length so it sits between the stock rails.  That way I can (re)install it in place if necessary, and (re) build a clipped throw bar in place as well.  Field maintainable!

This may not be very clear, so please ask if you have any questions.

[robert3985]

When I ordered the "throwbar/point hinge" fret from Andy Reichert, the owner of Proto87 Stores, I talked to him about his new N-scale throwbars, which don't have a "pin" and rely on the spring tension of non-hinged closure points to work.  I wanted to hinge my closure points and they are definitely NOT spring tensioned so the new N-scale throwbars are useless for me.

What Andy supplied me with were HO scale HOn30 throwbars, which is HO scale engines running on N-scale track...one set of throwbars has pins, the second set doesn't. Frankly, I didn't think press-fitting Andy's throwbars into an N-scale PCB tie was robust enough.  So, I discarded them just using the hinges.

I didn't use the pre-drilled holes (which are designed for HO scale turnout dimensions) in the tri-planed closure points...I just drilled my own as described in my previous post.  The main reason I didn't use them was that I would have had to cut the closure points off so much that they would have been overly thick at the head blocks in my estimation.  But, they seem to run okay as per Gary's installation.

(EDIT) Actually, I didn't use the pre-drilled holes on only three of the seven turnouts I built for my Emory Center Siding LDE.  It's been a couple of years since I built them and I forgot that after I considered the problem, I decided to use the pre-drilled holes for one set of holes I need, then drill the other two holes which are closest to the closure point toes.  The reason Gary's turnouts work okay using the pre-drilled holes is because the closure point toes at the headblocks is NOT too thick, even though I initially thought they might be. My turnouts now also work well using them.

My apologies about my memory lapse!

[Scottl]

   My bad.  Sorry, for some reason I thought both turnout posts were Gary's.  It is all clear now!

[GaryHinshaw]

Ok, that makes more sense now.    I like Robert's solution but I am not set up to drill my own holes in the rail base very reliably, so I found a way to make use of the supplied holes.

The main reason I didn't use them was that I would have had to cut the closure points off so much that they would have been overly thick at the head blocks in my estimation

I don't understand this comment, i.e. what you mean by "overly thick at the head blocks".  I have the head block in the location indicated on the p87 templates.  I just have the pinned bar a few ties away from the clipped bar, but that seems to work fine.  Anyway, I hope this has been helpful to Scott.  Back to Cisco!

[Scottl]

Yes, very helpful!  Parts are enroute.

[robert3985]

I don't understand this comment, i.e. what you mean by "overly thick at the head blocks".  I have the head block in the location indicated on the p87 templates.  I just have the pinned bar a few ties away from the clipped bar, but that seems to work fine.  Anyway, I hope this has been helpful to Scott.  Back to Cisco!

Gary, it's been two years since I built the seven turnouts for my Emory Center Siding LDE and I used the construction of these turnouts to experiment with my new throwbars as well as using Proto87 Stores turnout details.  The first three I built, I didn't use the pre-drilled holes, and the second three (as well as the stub siding turnout) I DID use the pre-drilled holes....I just forgot that I did that! 

So, I correct my statement about not using the pre-drilled holes...I DO use them, but drill an extra set towards the closure point toes.

Here's a photo of my first attempt at doing the throwbars when I inserted both ends of the .015" wires into pre drilled holes in the PCB throwbar.  Now, I solder the end that lays on the PCB tie instead of bending it and inserting it into a hole.  Soldering is MUCH quicker and just as secure. Notice in this photo the extra hole drilled further back, which is the pre-drilled hole the tri-planed points comes with...


Sorry about the memory lapse!

Now, back to Cisco!

[robert3985]

Yes, very helpful!  Parts are enroute.

If you're using the Proto87 Stores frog, I hope you bought it pre-assembled.  I bought mine unassembled and they are a PITA to solder up.  It's well worth the extra cost to have Andy do it for you.

Althought there are some things I really like about the three piece etched Proto87 Stores frogs, there are some things I don't like about them.  The main thing I don't like about them is the expense (when you have them assemble them for you), or the time it takes to solder them up if you decide to assemble them yourself.  I also don't like the ridge that runs down the railweb, and that the railhead is noticeably narrower than the code 55 rail used for the rest of the turnout. 

So....I decided to build my own instead of using Andy's on all but one turnout in the seven turnouts I needed for my Emory Center Siding LDE.

Here are a couple of photos which compare Proto87 Stores etched frog vs hand-built frogs using code 55 rail:

Proto87 Stores etched frog:


Frog built from code 55 rail:


Operationally, Andy's etched frog assembly works just as well as my hand-built ones (I run lo-pro wheelsets on everything), but IMO they're not worth either the expense or added time and effort to assemble.  Your opinion may vary.

On the other hand, Proto87 Stores closure point heel hinges and the tri-planed closure points are definitely worth the added expense!

Once again, back to Cisco!

[Scottl]

I ordered the frog unassembled, in part because I am cheap, in part because my first experience making one was not too bad at all.  I just made a jig to hold the pieces out of wood strips and some nails and soldered it with flux.  I do agree that the dimensions are not quite right for code 55, but the rest of the turnout is so nice I don't mind.  I especially like the point hinges which are clever and simple.  I actually built my first turnout without any pcb ties and I think this will be satisfactory in use.  I hate those cut marks in the copper trace, but it is just my preference.

I don't think I will easily go back to the Atlas turnouts, just too clunky looking and inconsistent for my tastes.  You  have ruined me.  Or maybe that should be enlightened me... 

[ednadolski]

Catching up on this thread, and I gotta say:   I'm floored!   Thank you Scott, for sharing such an inspiring example of excellent workmanship and commitment!

Ed

[Scottl]

Thanks Ed, I'm happy with how it is turning out so far.

This week, I installed fascia on the peninsula so that I could finish the foam work.  I also cleaned up the track approach on the other side of the layout so I will be able to install the duckunder very soon.  That means that running trains is not far off!

[mark dance]

"...running trains is not far off"...Video or it didn't happened! 

congrats on the fantastic progress and results to date!

md

[Scottl]

Mark, I think the only way to get my trains moving in a video is to come to your place and run them there 

More progress this weekend and I am starting to think about details.  One is signalling.  I want to have the signal masts installed, along with operable LEDs, and I plan to use the very nice kits from http://benscale.com/h2-signal-head.html.

The scene on the east bank of the river looks like this:



And, I hope it will ultimately look like this (from railpictures.net, photographer Tim Repp):




I'm not really sure what I should wire up here yet in terms of gauge and number of leads, so perhaps the best solution is to leave a tube to run wires through?  Is there another clever solution?  I don't want to dig this up after the scenery is done.  There is also a signal on the west bank, and that location needs similar planning.  Thanks for any insights or comments.

[eric220]

One clever solution is that signals usually have bases that are much bigger than the ID of the mast. Any hole you have to cut through the scenery to fit the wires should be covered by the signal base and blending of scenery around the base.

[Scottl]

That is true, so that gives me some slop to work with.  My concern is that it is 12" down to the base of the bench work though, and the risk of collateral damage while drilling something like that seems high.  I am leaning towards putting a small diameter tube in there now with a pull through string so that I can pop on a signal mast with minimal disturbance.