Kato GS-4 drive gear slippage help needed

[mmagliaro]

Okay, now I want to know where you found Delrin tubing?   
As I read your saga, I went off and looking for fiberglass tubing, but I couldn't find it in the size that
you did.  It will be tricky to bore it out true, but since it is already bored, you can probably do it... the existing
bore will probably guide your bit and it will work.

As for the fiberglass coming apart, I noted on that website that they say this tubing is pultruded, which means it is
fibers coated with resin to form the tube, as opposed to just drawing it through something.  So maybe it will not
splinter.

Wow... I have to say, I've chopped up and reassmbled and bashed things together in my day, but this is way beyond
what I'd do to save this engine.   I don't mean to discourage you, by the way.  I applaud you for digging and investigating.

[Chris333]

Delrin:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/hman16/m.html?item=190715242689&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6783a8c1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

I have a stick for the lathe, but I haven't used it yet.

[up1950s]

The Delrin is a rod Max , as for the Fiberglass tube , it is the first one on that list . I just took a Delrin or Delrin like axle gear , I think it was from a Atlas GP-7 in HO . I was able to knock down the OD to .125 , and the ID was almost perfect with just a few file strokes . Well it split while truing the wheels . Not totally upset with the split . as I wasn't being exactly gentle , and the forces were not what the wheel would impart while running . I will continue as soon is re-composure sets in .

[peteski]

Keep in mind that splitting of the plastic axle tubes or gears (Kato, Bachmann or any other manufacturers) does not happen upon initial installation of the axle in a tight fitting tube (like it happened to you). The cracking occurs after years of constant low pressure from a metal axle.  It is more of a fatigue crack than a quick catastrophic failure from ill fitting parts.

You might be fighting windmills here.  How about using telescoping metal (brass) tubes for your axle. For the inside tube use one 2 sizes smaller then use CA impregnated paper rolled on that tube for insulator.  That should result in a robust axle.

[up1950s]

Keep in mind that splitting of the plastic axle tubes or gears (Kato, Bachmann or any other manufacturers) does not happen upon initial installation of the axle in a tight fitting tube (like it happened to you). The cracking occurs after years of constant low pressure from a metal axle.  It is more of a fatigue crack than a quick catastrophic failure from ill fitting parts.

You might be fighting windmills here.  How about using telescoping metal (brass) tubes for your axle. For the inside tube use one 2 sizes smaller then use CA impregnated paper rolled on that tube for insulator.  That should result in a robust axle.

That paper insulator crossed my mind , but I want to pin the bridging axle and that becomes another mess . I will succeed with something . This weekend I am free , so far , and will maybe try other plastics I have . I may have to take off the outermost tube and sacrifice the added glue area , but gain final tube wall thickness . Something will work .

EDIT today
The more I thought about removing the second brass tube , the more I liked that idea , so this morning I did just that . Now the six half wheels with bearings and axles are .062 ish . More glue surface area than the OEM wire axles , and now more wall thickness allowable for the half axles bridging insulating tube . In the process of pealing the outer soldered tube off the inner tube some axles in the wheels got loose ,and one inner tube pealed off with the outer tube . These are Red Loc-tite drying today . Hopefully , and pretty confidently , this will solve the split problem , if not I will collar the bridging tube .

[peteski]

So you did end up using a paper insulator? Excellent!    The KISS principle works again!

[up1950s]

So you did end up using a paper insulator? Excellent!    The KISS principle works again!

No , had I used a paper insulator , then a brass tube over that it would be ok , but I plan on drilling through the bridging tube and the chance on that locking pin hitting the brass on both sides is almost 100%  .

[peteski]

No , had I used a paper insulator , then a brass tube over that it would be ok , but I plan on drilling through the bridging tube and the chance on that locking pin hitting the brass on both sides is almost 100%  .

 

[victor miranda]

I wondered when peteski would make a post I would not question.

strange when one see such a question answered.

Hi up1950s,

you seem to be locked into a battle to the death with that driver/axle set.
.... the part I can tell is which will win.

I am going to call Kato on Monday.  one 'o you two needs to be saved.

victor

[up1950s]

I wondered when peteski would make a post I would not question.

strange when one see such a question answered.

Hi up1950s,

you seem to be locked into a battle to the death with that driver/axle set.
.... the part I can tell is which will win.

I am going to call Kato on Monday.  one 'o you two needs to be saved.

victor

Thanks , but don't bother using a " get put of jail card " on me Vic . I already have a GS-4 on hand stated for static museum display on the layout I don't have . If I come to a dead end I will cannibalize . I feel confident I will be able to convince this to work . I am in the process of quartering the driven driver as soon as my new fangled quartering arms dry on both driver faces . Please let me continue , and thanks for all the advice .

[Lemosteam]

Richie you are a man on a mission!  Don't let anything stop you until you are satisfied.   

[peteski]

Richie you are a man on a mission!  Don't let anything stop you until you are satisfied.   

...or until Richie's GS-4 is turned into an armored loco, complete with Titanium and depleted Uranium armor! 

[victor miranda]

k...
I called Kato .... 
begged...
 pleaded...

a broken axle should be on its way

In the mean time I did another fix to this one
the axle is curing as I write.

I'll test it on the morrow If I get a chance.

a couple o photos

I hope you can see the crack.


with collars

[peteski]

Simple and elegant solution Victor!  But you didn't pin the axes!   
If you rough-handle your loco, the drivers might get out of quarter.

[victor miranda]

I guess pins in the collar are possible....

I am not yet ready to declare victory.
Kato Kelley said that red loc-tite did not hold
when they tried it.
so I am giving the axle a little while to cure.

I have done this repair before and it did hold.
I also have done this to a b-mann northern.
that leads me to think this one will hold.

another item of note is that red loc-tite can be tricky
in that I have had it fail to hold and
had to re-do the joint. I just reapplied the loc-tite with success.
I have no real ideas for the different outcomes.

this fix requires a lathe.
lets see if it does hold in service before going into
repair specifics.

victor