Allegheny Eastern: Clean Slate

[davefoxx]

Another suggestion: On the AE, I would suggest reducing the number of short passing sidings, so that you can have at least a train length between towns.  I would keep Owertown, remove Common Stock, remove Lake Side and Alpha (as suggested above in my last post) but replace Lake Side and Alpha with a lengthened Woking, remove Quotidian, and lengthen Mount Carbon.  You would still have three full-length passing sidings between the interchanges at the end points, separated by single track with more space between the towns.

Hope this helps,
DFF

[kelticsylk]

One of the drawbacks of planning on paper is that it's way too easy to make changes. Although the styrospline is pretty easy to modify I'm not sure I want to make a major modification. Right now about 100 feet of four track mainline is complete, a total of 400 feet of code 55 flex track...


The thought of a major rebuild makes me consider needlepoint as a hobby. How can I go forward without going backwards yet again? After thinking of ways to condense the mainline trackage to a simple oval I realized this might not be desirable. I drew up this version...


I took your advice and reduced the number of passing sidings. There are only three now. I also turned the middle peninsula into a industrial area. I kept the clockwise flow of the last plan. At East End I split the four track main to represent two railroads following the same watercours, as the CNJ and LV do along the Lehigh River.

Since the four tracks are completely separate there is no danger of collision. We have been able to run trains, some of 30 cars, for hours without derailments. The chief problem in that area is equipment. Truck mounted couplers and wheel sets are the most common issue. Once we weed out the problem cars the trains run fine. The chief obstacle to "burying" all that track is access. The splines are twi inches deep. The spline to support the AE would also be 2" thick. At least two vertical inches will be required between the two roadbeds. The complication is the fact that the two railroads run vertically parallel for most of the layout. The location of vertical supports is also problematical. Very few of them can be located directly below the AE roadbed.

I thought to put down 6mm underlayment (again) to support the mainline. Aside from the guarantee that no more equipment topples to the floor, this constitutes a major reconstruction, which I am trying to avoid. The other idea was to use the same underlayment to support the AE, requiring the "cookie cutter" method to build the roadbed.

Anyone need a nice wall hanging? I'm looking at this lovely magenta yarn and a set of aluminum needles.

[davefoxx]

I like the AE's portion of the plan, but I am not crazy about so much hidden track.  You have a serious decision to make about whether you are willing to make major changes.  if it were me, I would.  You can still use about half of the existing subroadbed to build the four-line track in your previous plan.  Again, I really like where the AE design is.  That will be fun to operate.

DFF

[MichaelWinicki]

Frank,

I get the "Not wanting to rebuild this thing yet again" feelings.

But I'll tell you, figuring out that a plan doesn't suit you now is better than figuring it out when you're 3/4 of the way to completion.

I think it goes back to the challenge Lee had with his layout... Trying to stuff 10lbs of layout in a 5lb layout space.

It's difficult, even in the largest of spaces to accomplish everything you want in a layout design.  compromise's simply have to be made.  If not then you wind up with too much track... too little scenery... too much hidden trackage... too much maintenance... and too complicated of a design overall.

[DKS]

I am not crazy about so much hidden track.

+1, in a major way. That is something I would not, not consider doing, even on a good day. Me, I'd just use the four-track roadbed for a single-track main with passing sidings. You should be able to easily carve the excess roadbed into a slope where needed; otherwise, it hurts nothing to have it there.

[kelticsylk]

Latest revision...


The passing sidings need to better spaced. The interchange with the "two track" main is now in the middle rather than the end.

[S Class]

Possible idea:
Delete the Four tracks under Quotidian with a direct link, loose maybe about 10-12ft of mainline but still give a long run, I'd also not have the long single track around Alpha, I'd delete that for an open four track line, means you only need to bridge that gap under the Quotidian peninsula. Have Alpha as a passing siding and spur for industry inside the turn back loop and and a ridge line separating it from the four track visually. The ridge line also throws the watercourse about which justifies the line looping back around, maybe even put the east end back in but on the turn back instead of the left as you've deleted it from the current plan.

[kelticsylk]

Alrighty then...Yet another revision...


Shorter mainline, looped so trains can go roundy round. Four track interchange at Average. Two Track interchange is back at East End providing the possiblity to run AV trains in a loop using the two interchanges. East End is also an interchange with the Quotidian Company quarry/mine branch. Alpha is still a siding, but with two tracks to serve the cement plant. Quotidian is still the central industrial area. AV main yard and engine facilities at Average. The Quotidian Company should have facilities for their Shay at the mine, but I haven't figured that out yet.

I exposed quite a bit of the mainline but tried to make it plausible. Four track mainline is hidden (lighter gray lines) between East End and Average, Average and Owertown, and left of Quotidian. Two track main is hidden between Mount Carbon and East End.

Keep in mind that the mainline trains are run off DC throttles at constant speeds. There will be no operating crews. The trains simply loop over and over again at certain intervals to provide the illusion of busy Class 1 mainlines. The AV equipment will have DCC and will be controlled by operator(s) aka me for the most part.

Should Quotidian have its own dedicated switcher? Currently there is a small FM switcher available. Not sure how I would put DCC in the critter. Maybe the industrial district could be DC. I plan to do that for the mine branch. I dread the idea of trying to fit a decoder in that Shay.

The roadbed under Average is a 2" thick slab. The rest of the track uses the existing spline with realignment or modification  to double or single track.

[kelticsylk]

Latest design...


Trackage is the same but I sketched in buildings, watercourses and roads. Only industries and rail facities are shown except in Quotidian industrial area where I also show local stores and buildings. I also added a small waterfront scene in Quotidian for river traffic. I've wanted to try this, but couldn't with the previous setting in the Alleghenies.

Roads are probably out of scale. I want to do something more than the usual one lane roads seen on a lot of layouts so I am aiming at a realistic two lane blacktop.

I'm not sure of all the details, but this seems like the most workable plan to date. Might start rebuilding based on this sketch.

[kelticsylk]

"The "Final" Design

Yea, like that could happen. Still, this is the most workable and interesting sketch yet. A lot of the ideas come from the gang at Railwire...

Average Eastern January 31st, 2014

I added possible locations for the industries and roads and a few other buildings. Rivers and streams are shown, including a small waterfront scene at Quotidian. I forgot to shown the engine facilities for the Q Company railroad, but it will be adjacent to the mine complex. The streets in Average that cross the four track will require overpasses but everywhere else I show grade crossings.

As always the track will be fastened down temporarily for testing of operations. While the mainline trains will do nothing more than circumnavigate their loops, the AE trains will need to meet, pass and switch industries along the route. Quotidian is complex enough to require a dedicated switcher so the AE trains will drop off cars rather than work the town industries.

Only the AE trackage will operate under DCC. The mainline is controlled by two MRC DC Twinpacks. Quotidian and the Q Company branch will most likely be controlled by their own DC cabs. The locomotives that serve these two areas are two small for DCC decoders (at least at my skill level). It will be easier to connect a DC throttle than destroy a perfectly good locomotive. Since the Atlas DCC system supports one DC locomotive either one could be operated from one of the DCC controllers. The best candidate is the Quotidian switcher. The Atlas Commander could be installed there for the switcher while the road engines will be controlled by the tethered remotes.

As I may have mentioned before this plan reuses most of the existing spline. Since it's flexible I can realign parts to fit. I can also split the current four track into two and single track sections as needed. The mainlines will run level on the benchwork while the AE will change elevation as needed. Not sure of the grades yet, but the highest elevation shouldn't be more than 4".

Once again I'm basically starting over. The only consolation is the fact that I'm not tearing down a complete layout, just the right of way. Making things easy to change is a curse and a blessing.

Regards,
Frank Musick

Building a dream layout on a nightmare budget

The Average Eastern Railroad

[MichaelWinicki]

I like it Frank!

It offers a lot of operating potential without being overly busy.

About the only thing to maybe consider would be a drill track at Quotidian that could also serve as place to refuel the switcher.  The lead to the industries on the left side of Quotidian is pretty short and the switcher would foul the main... that may not be a be a problem for you on how you go about operating the layout.

You could also have one more spur at Quotidian that is parallel to the main, on the same side as what I perceive to be the passenger station.  That spur could serve either an active freight station or maybe an abandon freight station.  You could then use the spur as a place to drop off bad-order cars (for later pickup).   Since that spur would be right next to the road it could also serve as a team track.

[kelticsylk]

I hope I understood what you meant...


I added a team track, but no freight house. I was thinking the industry at the upper left could handle LCL freight. Does that seem plausible?

[MichaelWinicki]

Yep.  Those two changes cover what I was thinking about. 

I think its plausible that the industry in the upper-left handles the LCL duties of the town.

[kelticsylk]

Now all I have to do is buy or make all these turnouts. Since we already own about 400 feet of code 55 the right of way is pretty much covered. As for the 40 or so switches...Yikes!

[kelticsylk]

"Quotidian"

First, the weather. Outside in the "real" world it's 30 and rainy. The meteorological station at Average reports the temperature is 52 with 90% humidity and a falling barometer. By a quirk of nature that I don't understand high humidity at low temperatures makes it feel colder, but high humidity at higher temperatures makes it feel warmer. Whatever, it's actually warm enough to work on the layout. Unfortunately we are replacing a a sink and disposal in the kitchen.

Previously I had used my XTracCAD software backwards. I would lay out the real trackwork and recreate it with the program as a kind of visual aid to this blog. I now try to use my track plan software to actually plan changes to the layout. While that seems to work well for track I still don't have a real sense of proportion for other aspects of the Average Eastern like buildings and scenery. Looking at it you may get an idea of how badly I estimated the size of the builings and streets in my sketch...

Quotidian: Track Plan

In order for me to grasp the overall look I have to see it full size. I printed out the plan in 8.5" x 11" pieces and layed it out on the family room floor...

Quotidian: Full Size

Some of the buildings shown in the sketch would be about a foot wide and two feet long. The industries and other buildings will actually be much smaller and the streets a lot wider than the sketch shows.

Almost simultaneously with all this I learned that I can import my XTrakCAD plan into 3rd Planit. It has all the features of XTrakCAD and more. You can even view your layout in three dimensions. The really cool thing about 3rd Planit is the standard library of manufacturers products. Various manufacturers of model railroad supplies create 3D images of their offerings that can be used in the software...

Quotidian Mock Up In 3rd Planit

Unfortunately, all these features come at a price. Although there is a free trial version it has limited capability. If you want a fully functional 3rd Planit you need to shell out about $125. The drawings you make can be VERY elaborate...

3rd Planit Trestle Detail

3rd Planit 3D View

Another drawback...because the program can do so much it also has a longer learning curve than the free packages.

I used the trial version and added some N scale builduings to the industrial area. Although I still need to mock it up on the actual layout I now have a good idea of what I can actually accomplish. There are other buildings on the Average Eastern, but Quotidian is densely populated and the spacing critical to the track plan. A peek at some of the industrial layouts at Railwire will give you an idea of what I'm aspiring to...

David K Smith's Hoboken Manufacturers Railroad

Chris Schmuck's "Other" Industrial Layout

While my modeling skills are nowhere near the level of these guys it doesn't hurt to aim high. The worst that can happen is a better layout (I hope).

Regards,
Frank Musick

Building a dream layout on a nightmare budget

The Average Eastern Railroad