BN passenger train - 1970/71

[nkalanaga]

I have the Kato BN sets.  Yes, I know most of the cars aren't correct for the BN, but that's not the question.

Did the BN, in the little over a year they ran intercity passenger trains, ever run a long-haul revenue train in full BN paint?  I'll accept a mix of green/white GN, true green/white BN, and BN-lettered stainless steel, as long as all of the cars and power were lettered for the BN.

[wcfn100]

Have you seen the book?

http://www.amazon.com/Burlington-Northern-Through-Passenger-Service/dp/1582482470


Jason

[nkalanaga]

No, and apparently neither has Amazon, as they "don't know when or if it will be back in stock"!

I model 1974, so there was no BN passenger service outside the Chicago commuter lines during my era.  I was just curious if they had ever managed to paint enough cars to make up a complete train, and then ran them as a train.  When Amtrak took over, the North Coast Limited and Mainstreeter in Pasco were still using mostly NP cars, with a few GN and BN tossed in.

[wcfn100]

FWIW, Morning Sun still has it listed.

http://www.morningsunbooks.com/hillcat4.html#bn_through


Jason

[Sokramiketes]

While they might have had enough cars in various states of BN paint to do it, I don't think I've ever seen a photo of a complete train assembled with them. 

[screeh]

I just checked my trio of BN in Color books by Jim Boyd, and all of the passenger consists shown have the BN hockey stick cars mixed in with GN Big Sky Blue, NP (Loewy scheme, I think?) and fluted-side stainless with the occasional GN Empire Builder holdout.

[Bendtracker1]

Did the BN, in the little over a year they ran intercity passenger trains, ever run a long-haul revenue train in full BN paint? 

No,  The only time that a BN train had a solid consist of the green and white cars were if they ran an executive or inspection train. 
Regular revenue passenger trains were nothing more than a mix of what they could assemble of the predecessor roads.
As listed in earlier posts, some revenue passenger trains might have had a fair amount of the green and white cars from time to time, but never a full string of them on purpose.

[Ike the BN Freak]

I have that book, and the quick scan I did had no trains of solid BN consist for revenue trains.

[sirenwerks]

FWIW, my friend Chuck at Railroadbooks.biz has the book for $47.95 - http://railroadbooks.biz/prodDetail.php?itemNum=1582482470. He's got the best prices in town on a daily basis.

[nkalanaga]

Thank you, everyone.  So, if I want an actual BN passenger train, for 1974, I'll have to make one up.  That's fine, as I like the rainbow trains, but by then they should be mostly repainted, assuming that Amtrak didn't come along.  Of course, the GN still had a lot of green and orange three years after Big Sky Blue came into use.

Assuming no Amtrak, and some sort of subsidy system to keep passenger service going, I wonder what the trains would have been pulled by?  I can see three possibilities, based on GN/BN practice:

Rebuilt F units.  It wouldn't be hard to gut and rebuild an F to "GP38-2" standards.

Hood units, SDP40/45.  The GN was going that way, but they really don't look that great.

FP45s.  The BN liked the F45 enough to order more after the merger, and the FP45 would have been more practical in northern winters.

Since I already have my Amtrak train, and my line probably wouldn't have had passenger service by 1970 anyway, all of this is purely from curiosity.

[Vince Gortner]

I really liked the look of some of the CBQ E units that ended up getting a splash of cascade green on the cab but kept the stainless side panels...  short lived, but kinda cool looking.

I like the concept!  I know we've traded posts about early Amtrak rainbow consists and this has a similar appeal.   And I agree that passenger BN FP45s would have made sense.  Or, maybe, maybe, maybe...  seeing as how BN started buying SD40-2s in massive quantities, perhaps they would have been a customer for a 16 cyl 645 cowl unit that was not quite the mess that the SDP40F turned out to be.  Like an FP40-2 cowl version of the SD40-2....   which is not too different from the actual real world F40C model that is still in service on the Chicago Metra Milwaukee line.  Shorter and lighter than the SPD40F and it did not suffer the same fate.

[jmlaboda]

"...which is not too different from the actual real world F40C model that is still in service on the Chicago Metra Milwaukee line."

Only 611 and 614 remain in service, having been rebuilt... all others were removed from service by 2004.

[nkalanaga]

An FP40-2 would have been a logical choice, especially if they waited until the -2s came out to order new power.  The frame wouldn't have to change, as there was plenty of room on the rear platform for the steam generators.

[jmlaboda]

"An FP40-2 would have been a logical choice, especially if they waited until the -2s came out to order new power."

Depending on what sort of unit you are talking about there was an FP40-2.  All of AMTKs units were built after the Dash-2 electricals had been made standard.

The SDP40F was a good example of what might have been done with a cowled SD40-2, though when they were retired only a few went on to serve the Santa Fe.  I am no industrial engineer but somehow EMD really "screwed the pooch" on this one, with these units having a horrible track record (literally) on many lines.  Changes in the design of the underside from the FP45 caused the units to be prone to derailments, with the ATSF being one of the only roads that had few problems with them (talk about track quality, their tracks were superior to most any other road).  Don't fully understand what they changed between the FP45 and the SDP40F but whatever it was it doomed these units to an early retirement, though the guts of some were transplanted into F40PHRs.

As far as the idea of BN having a fully painted train other than for publicity shots, which was what the GN did when they introduced the Big Sky Blue scheme, there really would not have been much of a reason for them to do such a thing since meeting the needs of various passengers and not appearance was still the rule that they tried to follow.  Now you can assemble a prototype consist by reviewing the list of BN repaints and the BN photos on the Passenger Car Photo Index but operationally they preferred to keep the cars in service rather than to pull them for the photo shoot.  Even a heavyweight car or two could be thrown into the mix... but observation cars were not a part of the program, at least not painted ones.

[Vince Gortner]

SDP40Fs and failure...   one of my favorite topics.  And one of my job interview questions when I worked as an engineer for EMD! (1988-91)

There is a two-part article in the Jan & Feb 1991 issues of Raillfan & Railroad written by Preston Cook that is pretty much the definitive examination of the rise and fall of the SDP40F including issues with truck design, track maintenance arguments, the above-frame location of a big/heavy water tank all leading to the premature retirement of these locomotives.  These issues pop up on eBay pretty frequently...  great article if this is a topic of interest to you.

And the article does conclude with some "what if?" comparisons with the F40C being slightly shorter and 40k pounds lighter and....   successful.   

Did not realize all but two of the F40Cs had been retired!  I see them downtown pretty often and didn't realize they were so rare.  I'll grab photos while I can.