Author Topic: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"  (Read 303660 times)

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C855B

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1335 on: December 29, 2017, 10:38:23 PM »
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That's a good point, Mike. I might try doing that this weekend. I really don't like the way the cork splits anyway, one edge has that bit that needs to be trimmed. I'm just a little concerned about ballast consumption since I'm using the high-priced spread. :facepalm:

Gary, I put the acrylic media testing on hold - the extra-cold temperatures make shipping a risk for liquid and gel media.

Worth repeating from the scenery section. I swear I'm in love with this tool:

Not a valid vimeo URL
I was in great fear of the effort it was going to take to geoform around the "sexy curve" at Oro Grande and carve the mountain next to Colton Tower. Not any more - let me at it!
...mike

http://www.gibboncozadandwestern.com

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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1336 on: December 29, 2017, 11:32:07 PM »
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Speaking of Midwest cork, I have vowed to never again use double wide strips. They're too wide to allow for varying ballast shoulders.

C855B

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1337 on: January 01, 2018, 09:08:12 PM »
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Transferring the northeast slope of Slover Mountain to pink foam from enlarged topo map contours. I didn't leave enough horizontal space to do the full 300' elevation within reasonable scale, but it should do.

...mike

http://www.gibboncozadandwestern.com

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GaryHinshaw

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1338 on: January 02, 2018, 01:14:40 AM »
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Very nice!  Is this selectively compressed in the horizontal direction?  I'm curious to see how your new toy does with some concave profiles.

C855B

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1339 on: January 02, 2018, 01:46:59 AM »
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Wow! Incredible you picked-up on that! Yes, it is compressed nearly 2:1 horizontally, maybe 4:3 vertically. I really wanted it to be to scale, but to show any significant elevation contrast there wasn't enough room between the wall and the track. I was experimenting a little more, and the drum is definitely small enough to do most geoform concaves. Looking forward to how it works out.
...mike

http://www.gibboncozadandwestern.com

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jpwisc

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1340 on: January 02, 2018, 10:36:53 AM »
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Speaking of Midwest cork, I have vowed to never again use double wide strips. They're too wide to allow for varying ballast shoulders.
+1

I cut all my own roadbed from sheet cork, I make it just a hair wider than the ties. I used Midwest, but I found I had to narrow it about 3/16”. So if I have to cut cork anyways, I’ll go the more cost effective and efficient route. The results have been very satisfying.
Karl
CEO of the WC White Pine Sub, an Upper Peninsula Branch Line.

jpwisc

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1341 on: January 02, 2018, 10:38:54 AM »
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Wow! Incredible you picked-up on that! Yes, it is compressed nearly 2:1 horizontally, maybe 4:3 vertically. I really wanted it to be to scale, but to show any significant elevation contrast there wasn't enough room between the wall and the track. I was experimenting a little more, and the drum is definitely small enough to do most geoform concaves. Looking forward to how it works out.

Even with slight compression that should be an impressive slope.
Karl
CEO of the WC White Pine Sub, an Upper Peninsula Branch Line.

Scottl

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1342 on: January 02, 2018, 11:55:04 AM »
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A real map :D

We consider the distortion of the vertical and horizontal scales as the vertical exaggeration (VE).  This is usually indicated by the ratio of the two scales.  Most profiles of natural topography need VE of c. 10 or more to show them graphically. On layouts, we tend to exaggerate them even more because of space limitations (and the ascetics of the vertical dimension).   

Now 300' of elevation in n scale is 1.875' or 22.5", a rather tall hill for what looks to be about 8" of left-right paper interval in your photograph.  That would give you slopes of ~22.5/8= 2.8 or a rise of 2.8" for ever 1" of horizontal, or about 70 degrees.  That is rather steep, especially for what looks to be a modest and rounded land form. 

In the end what looks right will probably be best, but it is unlikely that mimicking the actual contours will be satisfying.  Our eyes do perceive when slopes don't look right, and knowing what the material that makes up the hills will probably be a better way to estimate appropriate scaling.  For instance, slopes composed of unconsolidated soils or sediment form more gentle slope angles (and vary according to composition, the so-called angle of repose) vs. different kinds of bedrock that underlie or outcrop.  There is a lot of science behind these things that can be mostly ignored, but paying attention to the geological context makes a significant visual difference for the layout. 

C855B

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1343 on: January 02, 2018, 12:15:48 PM »
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It's not that bad, Scott. There's about 180' max elevation, each of those contour lines representing 20' of rise. It's that I originally wanted to capture the 300' full elevation of the current outcropping, which is what this "mountain" is in real life. We are also relatively free to ignore science - the slopes haven't been natural for decades, this basically being a vertical quarry.

So the compression should work. If not, I can likely put the mountain to use elsewhere on the layout.
...mike

http://www.gibboncozadandwestern.com

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lashedup

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1344 on: January 02, 2018, 01:18:20 PM »
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Really like the idea of the topo map (and the Porter tool - hmm... something to consider). Going to be fun to watch and see how this progresses.

On the whole cork thing. I've gone through the trouble to cut a thin strip off the slightly wider straight half of the Midwest cork with a sharp blade and straight edge. It's a pain as you are cutting 1/8 or so off, but it helps even the two halves a bit better. I'd argue though that if you just center the track best you can (even if that means it is slightly offset the Midwest Cork center line) you won't notice it being that much wider. In the end you're going to eyeball that track for straightness or flowing curves anyway. Adding superelevation makes it even trickier to get just right.

Once the cork is glued down I sand the 45 degree shoulders with a foam sanding block to round the edge a bit and get that profile more natural and smooth. The pointed 45 degree end is what usually causes the headaches of cork poking through later. However, before I ballast I also take a brush and white glue and paint the shoulders first and sprinkle ballast on to cover the cork. This ensures it is covered ahead of the actually ballasting.

I've done both methods described above and Mike's. Mike's uses a bit more ballast and I find getting the shoulders just right a little trickier. You have to spread the ballast evenly as you can to build up a shoulder that isn't there. Then I usually take a small flat brush and pat the should at an angle to get it more even. <shrug> It is really a matter of preference. Not too many people "enjoy" ballasting. :)

Scottl

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1345 on: January 02, 2018, 01:52:55 PM »
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Sorry Mike, I should have looked for the location.  Not much of it left these days.

My more general point stands- much like all aspects of layout composition, care in setting up the scenic context yields realistic results.  Much like streets and roads, or buildings.

C855B

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1346 on: January 03, 2018, 12:26:00 AM »
+1
Slover Mountain, some assembly required:



Dry fit:





It'll be a couple of days of gluing before it gets "the tool".
...mike

http://www.gibboncozadandwestern.com

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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1347 on: January 03, 2018, 12:27:06 AM »
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I'm into it.

lashedup

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1348 on: January 03, 2018, 02:19:55 AM »
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Looks good but be careful, there isn’t much depth there to work with. 

Scottl

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Re: Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"
« Reply #1349 on: January 03, 2018, 07:01:22 AM »
+1
You could back fill with spray foam to solidify the mass of the hill.  I've never bothered to cut out the back of the "contour" like that as you have a lot of material to remove as you cut the slope on the front.