Gibbon, Cozad & Western - "The 100th Meridian Line"

[C855B]

Speaking of the railcam, interesting power on the BNSF local this past week. Yes, it was sublettered, but the sublettering was so faded it wasn't visible in the photo. If it wasn't for the orange electronics cabinet (and the CN/DWC boxcar), it could have been 20 years ago:



And, for fun, a photo "of" Phonsie while he works on removing the mezzanine subfloor:

[C855B]

We need to take a break from construction for a moment and talk about layout design. I could use some input. Here's where the thinking is at the moment:



And very rough thinking for the new upper deck, which joins the lower deck at the extreme right:



I color-coded the benchwork art into potential areas of phased construction, keeping in mind this is projected to be a 10-year undertaking. The light green and pink sections are operable standalone. The yellow area requires the green area, or can be added to pink with construction of a temporary loopback around the area labelled "Moapa". The blue benchwork represents the branchline plan, 12" above the main benchwork and against the north wall. It could also be built as a standalone with addition of a temporary loop at the east end.

Light green is a lot of railroad to build before something is operable. I could certainly concentrate on benchwork and mainline to have something running, and fill-in the rest. Or, I could build pink first since it's easier, but OTOH I have to consider that building this monster from east to west means that the most challenging construction (light green) will be as I approach 70 years of age, with all that entails, even considering the skills and experience that will have become polished in the process.

Another possibility is blue first. That's by far the easiest to construct, but is the least appealing idea since the objective of this whole exercise is big-time mainline railroading. The branchline is there mostly for operational variety, and an excuse for anachronisms versus the main layout theme. I am somewhat troubled by the wye at the extreme left - it looks like the giant virus from a Star Trek episode - so suggestions there would help, bearing in mind it has to stay compact and hug the wall, too. I abandoned the idea of running the upper deck around to the left with a loop over Victorville Cement. It would obscure a major LDE (Nn3 for the cement plant), and create reach problems especially if we're talking 55-60" deck height for the upper.

There is temptation, even under a phased plan, to build the entire benchwork skeleton in one fell swoop. I will resist that temptation, really I will.

Staging... we've never discussed staging. I think (...foolish me...) that there is plenty of yard capacity for staging on the main layout. East Yard will be the main train storage yard - 13 15' tracks will hold plenty, and Green River with 5 15' tracks will be sufficient for starting action on the east side. Yermo might source a local or two, same for Cheyenne. Anyway, is there any compelling reason to have hidden staging? If so, where?

I need to add industries. We have a mine between Lynndyl and Grant Tower, I might put a separate small spur off that track for another customer. I'm not sure about adding more complexity around Grant Tower even though I know the prototype is also a bowl of spaghetti. Sinclair is still on the plan, probably around Cheyenne, provided I can find enough Tomix refinery pieces to make it worthwhile - scarcer than hen's teeth. Grain elevator around Cozad, definitely, also one up on the branchline (that area with the yard is to be a grain elevator), plus a bunch of old-timey businesses on the branchline which might have had rail service in the '40s and '50s, on private spurs.

Cheyenne is not complete only because I haven't finished the research. A little bit of digging around in my UPHS back issues should solve that... whether I can make it fit is another issue.

[MichaelWinicki]

I would go with the pink area first Mike for a couple reasons...

Mostly because it wouldn't take as long to build as the green section– and I think any time you can get trains running sooner, then the better.

The pink section would allow for some round-de-round action so your trains could stretch their legs for a bit.  And it would allow you to start trying some scenery techniques.  In other words start having some fun with the project sooner rather than later.

You've been doing the re-construction thing for quite a while now... I know if it were me I'd be getting sick of tearing apart, rebuilding and writing checks without seeing any trains moving! LOL!

[C855B]

Well, if I want to see trains moving I step outside. And frequently do.

The long winter was really costly in terms of progress on the building. It was not reasonable to heat the whole thing, and, frankly, we (esp. she) just could not muster the desire to work in the cold. We gnash our teeth whenever we see the trucks for the original contractor we tried to get for the exterior rehab, which was critical path for most interior work. If he hadn't spent four months leading us on that he was interested in the work, "just wait a week", we would probably be building layout now. With the warmer weather, we are re-energized and stuff is flying along. As far as cost, if we weren't experienced rehabbers and I wasn't a jack-of-all-trades, this project would be unaffordable... period.

OK, a vote for pink. Thinking that through, I would put in a temporary double track in the east leg of the east wye of Grant Tower to allow a contiguous two-track main. It may not be painfully obvious, but the triple-track crossovers at "Sinclair" (name to be moved) would then allow switches to be set for hands-off through running for two trains.

Speaking of progress, Phonsie just called and said he was going to be late, his girlfriend is being released from prison today and he needed to meet her at the train station. Robyn said she doesn't think we're going to see him this afternoon.

[JMaurer1]

While I would rather see the green (originally being from So Cal), I have to agree that the pink is probably a better starting point. Smaller and easier to get something running (something running is always a high priority for me). I'm guessing it would also be cheaper to do since there doesn't look like there are as many switches either (giving you a chance to recover some from your recent expenses). Everything seems to be easier once something is moving...wish I was closer so I could help, but I don't do well in the cold either so I stayed where it's warm(er).

[mcjaco]

Yeah go pink.  Then move along the wall and add the green and then yellow.  Being able to get trains moving will keep you excited.

[GaryHinshaw]

I'll be the contrarian and suggest yellow first.  It's the smallest, and, as you note, you can easily slip a loopback at Moapa and have continuous running.  Then, you can rig up a temporary staging yard in the pink area starting at Grant Tower.  This will give you some hands-on experience with staging which should convince you that you don't have enough.

[MichaelWinicki]

I'll be the contrarian and suggest yellow first.  It's the smallest, and, as you note, you can easily slip a loopback at Moapa and have continuous running.  Then, you can rig up a temporary staging yard in the pink area starting at Grant Tower.  This will give you some hands-on experience with staging which should convince you that you don't have enough.

I think your suggestion is a good one Gary.  "Yellow" would be a good choice.  Something to be said about tackling the smallest one first in that trains would be up & running the fastest.

[Specter3]

Mike

I hate to throw the wrench in here but how is anyone going to follow a train on the second deck? They will have to go out and back around the two peninsulas to get to the end. That is a lot of walking for a fairly short run. Just run the second deck over the whole pink section.

I say the pink section with the included second deck will be a good start. But with a nod towards your age comment I would definitely be building the East yard at the same time. Then run mainline between the two and have a wicked golden spike ceremony. You can run the yard blob as it's own roundy round as well to practice building trains.

[C855B]

Hmm. The logic for doing pink first is convincing. The (or, rather, "my") problem with yellow-only is that it is a single track line with one passing siding and one branch. Sure, it would be up and running fastest, but it offers the least operational variety. Gary, you might recall that this part of the plan was on your suggestion for a bit of clear, uninterrupted single-track main with little clutter, which is reflected in the choice of prototype focus. This is versus, say, skipping the LA&SL between Vegas and SLC and doing more with Wasatch and east.

Running trains ASAP is not a top priority. My interests also lie in dispatching and playing "tower operator", which explains some of the complex junctions and the crossover overload. Doing yellow first doesn't do much for that.

I also have to consider scenery skills, which are rusty and old-school - window screen and paper maché on wood frames is my benchmark. Ain't doin' that again, gotta re-learn with the new ways. Green gets the nod for this - it is mainly SoCal desert, so with the exception of Afton and the cement plant quarry (and that I'm skipping Cajon altogether), most is a step above plywood prairie. More track in exchange for simpler scenery is good, too.

Staging... Gary, can you elaborate? I'm not quite grasping the concept in the context of the two big yards in the plan. I know a lot of folks do behind-the-scenes staging to keep from seeing the same trains over and over again - nothing against it, it solves a problem - but here a single run around the entire layout will take 15-30 minutes depending on the consist, two laps and you can park the train in the yard or hand it over to the yardmaster to break up. The large yards have room for fifteen mainline-length trains... what am I missing, other than having somewhere handy for the 0-5-0?

Great suggestions, all. Let me sleep on this. Pink first also solves a practical issue, access to/from the workshop, shown in the double doors below the word "Walkway". Large layout bits assembled in the workshop might be a bit clumsy to handle around a near-finished Afton Canyon, with its multiple [ahem]-dollar brass bridges in vulnerable spots. From that aspect it makes more sense to start east and build west.

[C855B]

... I hate to throw the wrench in here but how is anyone going to follow a train on the second deck? ...

From the observation deck, maybe? 

Wow, you're right - that's seriously whack. Duh. Good idea to bend it around over pink. Then I will look at what it will take to reduce the aisle space between East Yard and Afton Canyon to give multiple operators more elbow room (seriously? butt room!) when somebody is operating the branchline and there are one or two operators in Green River.

[C855B]

Something else I just thought of... I'm not sold on backgrounds on the peninsulas. I was just thinking... with the exception of the backside of the branchline* wraparound above Green River, scene division on the two sides of each peninsula can be handled with the mountains that are the natural backgrounds for each of the line segments.

* - This is the Yoder branch, BTW. Name just came to me. Been there. There is a tunnel on the line, so can't forget to model that.

[GaryHinshaw]

Hmm. The logic for doing pink first is convincing. The (or, rather, "my") problem with yellow-only is that it is a single track line with one passing siding and one branch. Sure, it would be up and running fastest, but it offers the least operational variety. Gary, you might recall that this part of the plan was on your suggestion for a bit of clear, uninterrupted single-track main with little clutter, which is reflected in the choice of prototype focus. This is versus, say, skipping the LA&SL between Vegas and SLC and doing more with Wasatch and east.

No wonder I suggested it then.     You make some good points though.  I think your choice should be dictated by what you want to get out of the first section: running trains? scenery practice? ops practice with a crew? ease of build? etc.

Staging... Gary, can you elaborate? I'm not quite grasping the concept in the context of the two big yards in the plan. I know a lot of folks do behind-the-scenes staging to keep from seeing the same trains over and over again - nothing against it, it solves a problem - but here a single run around the entire layout will take 15-30 minutes depending on the consist, two laps and you can park the train in the yard or hand it over to the yardmaster to break up. The large yards have room for fifteen mainline-length trains... what am I missing, other than having somewhere handy for the 0-5-0?

For me the missing piece is the ops plan (which you might have a very clear vision of): what do you imagine taking place in a session?  A crew of 10 running mostly through trains in a 3-hour session?  2 people running roundy-round until bored?  This completely dictates your staging needs.  For example, if you have a crew of 10, you can run 8-10 trains at once, and it might take 30 min for a train to traverse the line (probably more if you have speed limits and meets - you should try to estimate that).  So a given crew-member can run 4-5 trains in a 3-hour session, which means anywhere between 30-50 trains per session.  If you don't wish to recycle trains, that is the lower limit to your staging needs.  You probably need to balance east and west capacity as well, so my guess would be 20-25 train-length tracks at each end.   

HTH,
-Gary

P.S. I refined my owns ops plans recently, and it absolutely convinced me that I needed some overflow capacity.

P.S.^2 Good catch Specter3!

[C855B]

Yes, the ops plan is somewhat clear in my mind - I see a "typical" session with 6-8 operators, but can accommodate more. Two to four can operate mainline trains. Two on locals. One on the branchline. Yardmaster/switcher operator at each big yard. Combined dispatcher and tower operator... well, oops - that's 8-10. I foresee each mainline train out for an hour, ends up in a yard, power gets swapped and maybe car blocks moved around (another hour or so), and then new trains are ready for another hour of operations.

Then park 'em in the yards, fridge is next to the sink in the studio, help yourself.

Oh... we can't forget that many of the mainline trains will have blocks which go to and come from the smaller yards, the fruits of the locals' labors. This is going to gum things up with regularity.

[GaryHinshaw]

This sounds like fun.  The concept for the layout is so clear that it would be a shame not to have a clear ops goal in mind to go with it - but it sounds like you do.  Two follow-up comments:

1. Write out a sample schedule and estimate how many trains will go where in a session.  For example, if you picture pushing 8 EBs across the pike, you'll want at least 10-12 tracks in East Yard  - more if there is classification going on at the same time.

2. I think you need to balance the east and west ends better.  Where will these 8 EBs terminate?  Green River will fill up, and it's not even the end of the line.  (But I think what you have there is good.)  I would plan to have an arrival yard in Cheyenne, then some hidden staging behind Cozad, managed by a Cheyenne yardmaster.   This staging might only serve as storage, but even that is valuable.  This would require rejiggering the branch line, but I think that has to happen anyway.

Highball!
-gfh