Beaumont Hill Track Plan Evalution

[jhn_plsn]

In response to my current layout becoming stagnant with no prototype to motivate me, Marc (3Dtrains) suggested I try Beaumont Hill. This would allow me to include many SP scenes that I desire and starting over would help me create them more faithfully. We settled on the run from West Colton to Banning in my slightly over sized 2 car garage.
Originally we restricted the space leaving some room for storage cabinets and a speedway of sorts for the family to move from the open garage door to the washer area and into the house. After some discussion with the little woman I have secured that space and storage will be relegated to under the layout and likely a new shed. Attached is what we came up with before the added space was secured.
My basic desires are;

• Wide isles with few to no pinch points.
  As little hidden trackage as possible, including staging.
  Double decking is OK, but switching areas cannot be stacked.
  Operator, visitor comfort, and ease of use are in the forefront.
  The list is huge and we will have many versions I'm sure.
  We are looking for any feedback and suggestions including adding details that we may have left out.
  
  
  
  
  
  

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[jhn_plsn]

Overall garage size is 22'5" wide by 20' deep.

[Bremner]

a lot of room, good looking track plan, are you looking for through freights or locals?

[jhn_plsn]

Both, and a helper job.

[C855B]

I really like this plan, John. You are modeling the period when I lived in the area and railfanned this line frequently. Don't forget the double crossovers at Ordway.

Here's a detail contribution for you:

[C855B]

Couple of minor detail points I'm recalling... the SP/ATSF interchange track at Colton Tower southwest of the diamonds did not exist in the '70s. That's a modern addition reinstating one that was pulled up in the '50s (?). I'm not even sure about the connector northwest of the diamonds because it wasn't on the tower diagram during that period, but it could have been under manual control.

In addition, the area under the I-10 bridge where I noted the "nonexistant" connector was a hobo jungle. That might be an interesting detail opportunity.

Also, like it'll matter, what you have noted as I-215 was I-15E at the time.

[GaryHinshaw]

Looks like a nice spacious plan.  I've never been to Beaumont Pass, so my only knowledge of it is through books/videos.  But it does seem to capture the feel of it for sure.  A few thoughts:

* Was the pass single track in the 70's?  That will make for more interesting ops.

* What are the terminal/staging plans?  It seems like things could get pretty congested at Banning w/o a good staging yard to receive, but it's not clear how that works here.

One thought would be to connect Banning and Colton with a helix that could serve as both linear staging and run-through.  Seems like you might have enough room next to the doorway to make that work.

Keep us posted!

-Gary

[jhn_plsn]

Couple of minor detail points I'm recalling... the SP/ATSF interchange track at Colton Tower southwest of the diamonds did not exist in the '70s. That's a modern addition reinstating one that was pulled up in the '50s (?). I'm not even sure about the connector northwest of the diamonds because it wasn't on the tower diagram during that period, but it could have been under manual control.

In addition, the area under the I-10 bridge where I noted the "nonexistant" connector was a hobo jungle. That might be an interesting detail opportunity.

Also, like it'll matter, what you have noted as I-215 was I-15E at the time.

Thank you for your response. Originally Marc did include the SP eastbound to ATSF westbound connector that is located on the southwest side of the diamonds, but I noticed and removed it. He was refering to a '50's map I believe. I am not sure when the other connectors were added or removed, but I wanted to show the diamonds as I remembered when I was little. There could be an issue of accuracy there too. So I wanted Universal Milling that is served by both ATSF and the SP to be included, even though it was on its way out by the time I moved to the area. I think the ATSF westbound to SP westbound was added at a later date, but I do not know either.
The hobo junction was planned to be alongside the Rancho overcrossing as that is what I remember.
Thanks for the tidbit on the I-15E as that will make a great conversation peice. Do you know when it changed?

John

[jhn_plsn]

Looks like a nice spacious plan.  I've never been to Beaumont Pass, so my only knowledge of it is through books/videos.  But it does seem to capture the feel of it for sure.  A few thoughts:

* Was the pass single track in the 70's?  That will make for more interesting ops.

* What are the terminal/staging plans?  It seems like things could get pretty congested at Banning w/o a good staging yard to receive, but it's not clear how that works here.

One thought would be to connect Banning and Colton with a helix that could serve as both linear staging and run-through.  Seems like you might have enough room next to the doorway to make that work.

Keep us posted!

-Gary

Gary,
 It was single track. In fact the long double track between Hinda and Ordway is using modelers liscence by compressing those sidings and having the crossover at El Casco.
Staging is a major concern that will be addressed in an updated plan. I prefer as little hidden track as possible so I am hoping to have it out in the open somewhere.
Also, I am avoiding any helix as best I can. One or two turns may be OK, but only as part of staging.

[jhn_plsn]

Hopefully Marc comes by to explain much better than I can.

[3DTrains]

The west side of Beaumont was all double track by the end of the 1970s. While John is modeling a later period, I used modeler's license to backdate to an earlier time (1974 or there abouts), and because of space constraints, combined Ordway, El Casco and Hinda into a a long passing siding with the crossovers at El Casco, but kept the mainline single track for operational interest. Also, because the diamonds changed so much over the years, my original drawing was for the 1950s and earlier based on available Sanborn maps, and as drawn (above) is fine for the space. The ATSF interchange is accurate for an earlier period, but obviously there's little to no room for old Colton. The tracks were mainly added for operational interest, as is the mill adjacent to I-10.

Staging design is still up in the air. My original suggestion to John was to loop across the top wall and loop back under Colton yard (west staging), and use the same pattern for staging under Banning/Beaumont (east staging). The former would work fine, but the latter forces 2.5% over the entire length between Redlands and Beaumont, which would be fine if curves were larger. With 18" radius curves over such a long stretch, I fear an issue with helper ops string-lining the train. Preference is for 2% or 2.25%, but this leaves little vertical separation between Redlands and Hinda. Currently I'm working on getting either a single staging area connected to both ends, or separate staging ends that are open. John's new negotiations for space might allow for either as convenient to the plan.

[C855B]

Thanks for the tidbit on the I-15E as that will make a great conversation peice. Do you know when it changed?

Mid- to late-'80s, IIRC. I think it came roughly with the completion of I-15 to connect with I-10 and CA60 east of Ontario.

[jhn_plsn]

Mid- to late-'80s, IIRC. I think it came roughly with the completion of I-15 to connect with I-10 and CA60 east of Ontario.

Thanks for the great photo too.

[jhn_plsn]

855,

In looking at the photo you posted I noticed a few items that make it a better photo. The background shows Universal Milling and the mainline signals can be seen. I just love these small details that make a photo great. I saved it if you don't mind.

[C855B]

Gosh, John... be my guest. If you can get that much info out of what was intended to be an "artsy-fartsy" shot, then that's great. I'll rummage around in the slide collection and see what else emerges. I think I have a view of the tower from the south, but it's nothing to write home about, being no different than other shots I've found online. Do a Google images search for "Colton Tower" and you should find plenty to use.