Seaboard Central 2.0

[davefoxx]

DKS,

You've definitely give me food for thought.  Here's a few issues:

1) I really have come to like Hamlet Yard for its ops potential.  A thought to correct the two adjacent yards would be to not increase the capacity of Aberdeen, by extending the tracks as I did.  First, the prototype yard in Aberdeen is only a two-track affair, so my yard should be left accordingly and significantly smaller than Hamlet Yard.  Besides, with a new yard, Aberdeen no longer serves as the only yard on the layout transferring much of its duties to Hamlet.  That could help spread it out a little between the two yards.  There's also a highway bridge through there that can be used as a scenic divider.

I could also use trees.  If I build a couple each night . . .   

2) To cross Raeford to the back as you have means an operator climbing the hill will have to run to the other side of the layout rather than staying with the train.

3) The wye would be cool, but that would require the destruction of the corner where the trestle is.  That's a deal breaker, because I fear that I wouldn't be able to fix what I messed up.

I have to go on a forty-mile bike ride this morning, so I have to be away from the computer for a while.  But, you've given me things to think about on the ride.

Thank you,
DFF

[MichaelWinicki]

Dave, I gotta say I agree with Dave.

The back-to-back yards doesn't strike me as being a good move.

I'd at least have one town separating the two OR turn some of the yard/engine servicing area in Aberdeen into industrial area.

[packers#1]

I actually prefer DFF's yard plans to DKS's because I feel like the DKS plan makes the Southern Lines area look a bit too heavy duty with the three tracks etc; if you're going for a major yard I think that would work but for a Southeastern line I think DFF's expansion would work better, and with cutting down the Aberdeen yard and utilizing the rolling hills and highway bridge I think the yards would be sufficiently separated visually. In terms of Ops, I think having the yards back to back could be interesting in terms of running a train one way; it's almost as of the layout is point to point with a hidden connection between the yards at the one end; I imagine having two crews; one to run the A&R and another to run the mainline trains would be necessary; perhaps, if the cassette is moved to the Southern end, the mainline crew could be split to be a SBD local crew and a mkanlkne/Southern crew. However, seeing as how I've never done an operating session, please don't take my Ops ideas as anything more than someone just throwing ideas out of his 

[DKS]

I actually prefer DFF's yard plans to DKS's because I feel like the DKS plan makes the Southern Lines area look a bit too heavy duty with the three tracks etc;

DFF's and my yard plans are very similar in their logical design: mainline, passing siding, and A/D track. It's probably a bit more obvious in mine because I put some space between these three tracks and the classification tracks. But if you compare the two yards, you'll find they're almost the same.

[packers#1]

DFF's and my yard plans are very similar in their logical design: mainline, passing siding, and A/D track. It's probably a bit more obvious in mine because I put some space between these three tracks and the classification tracks. But if you compare the two yards, you'll find they're almost the same.

I was more referencing how your plan works with Southern Pines, at least in my mind; I'm almost grouping it all together, when in reality there's the A&R tracks and hill, and the layout in the way...nevermind, I see the separation now.

[davefoxx]

This any better?  I cut back the tracks in both yards.  I also removed the small stub at the end of the A&R line in Aberdeen, where I've been storing SBD cabooses pre-expansion.  I won't need that track anymore, and without it, there's no longer the appearance of five tracks where the two track yard stops.  I cut it back to a single-track mainline between the towns to also separate them somewhat visually.  Keep in mind there will be a small ridge and the highway crossing the SBD on another bridge similar to the one over the existing A&R roundy-round track.



Oh, and Sawyer, you nailed it.  The plan is to move the cassette to the Southern Ry. interchange.  I'll have to do a slight realignment of the existing track to do it, but that shouldn't be a big deal.

Thanks for your inputs,
DFF

[DKS]

With Hamlet at the top being a given, I might suggest a few adjustments. First, I think what bothered me the most was how rectilinear Hamlet Yard was, especially running parallel to the edge of the layout. That's not so bad in and of itself except that the Aberdeen yard is already doing that. I gave it a gentle curve, and also flipped it: this has the effect of moving the ends of the classification tracks away from the ends of the Aberdeen class tracks to help reduce the "yard overload" effect. Additionally, this flip reduces the awkwardness of the yard lead, originally at the far left in the middle of a curve. I also smoothed out the connection to Aberdeen yard to reduce the "wigglies," and gave the line through Raeford a more gentle, sweeping arc. More food for thought...



Edit: After sketching the above, I realized that I didn't know how wide the extension would be on the end of the original door. I rendered it as 12"; if you can spare 18", things get a little more relaxed, although I'm not sure about the geometry of the mainline at Southern Pines--it could be a sticking point.

[davefoxx]

Edit: After sketching the above, I realized that I didn't know how wide the extension would be on the end of the original door. I rendered it as 12"; if you can spare 18", things get a little more relaxed, although I'm not sure about the geometry of the mainline at Southern Pines--it could be a sticking point.

DKS,

Thank you for the time you've invested in this.  This plan really has me intrigued.  There's a lot of goodness in it.  Yes, I should be able to go to 18" as the extension at the end of the existing HCD.  The limiting factor has been the SBD tracks that are leaving the door from Southern Pines.  Go much farther and they miss the new door.  That said, if, in reality, they miss the door or a realignment won't fix it, I could bridge that corner with cantilevered 2" foam.  So, either the 18" extension will work, or I will make it work.

Initially, I put the class tracks at the right end, so that the switching and most operations were at the end away from Aberdeen.  But, I like what I see here, especially the cosmetic curves.  My only concern is the length of the A/D tracks.  I'd like to get two four-axle locomotives and ten cars on each.  I'll accept just the ten cars, if necessary, though, because the power can cut off to clear the fouling points.  But, definitely, more food for thought.

I like what you did in Raeford.  A lot.  I'm still not exactly sure what the two industries in addition to the L&S interchange will be, but there's a ton of flexibility there with those two sidings.

Thanks,
DFF

[davefoxx]

Here's #8!  I admit that I haven't yet fussed with Raeford on this version.  And, yes, that's two custom curved turnouts that I'll have to build, but it allows me to extend the A/D tracks to a better length.

[DKS]

Improving! And if you want the Anyrail file, just let me know--it can save you some time tinkering.

[Rich_S]

Dave,
    I can't put my finger on it, but there is something about Hamlet that just does not flow. The sharp radius turn between Aberdeen and Hamlet is also a little troubling.  I don't know if double tracking the section between Aberdeen and Hamlet would help? I just can't put my finger on it, but it almost looks like it needs a backdrop down the middle of the new section?

[packers#1]

I really like the bend in Hamlet, I could see modeling it as if there's a river bank and have a touch of the river in the most bent-inward section. Would be a good reason for the curve and also look really cool 

[davefoxx]

I really like the bend in Hamlet, I could see modeling it as if there's a river bank and have a touch of the river in the most bent-inward section. Would be a good reason for the curve and also look really cool 

...and the ridge upon which Raeford will reside will also help define that curve in Hamlet.

Thanks,
DFF

[DKS]

Dave,
    I can't put my finger on it, but there is something about Hamlet that just does not flow. The sharp radius turn between Aberdeen and Hamlet is also a little troubling.  I don't know if double tracking the section between Aberdeen and Hamlet would help? I just can't put my finger on it, but it almost looks like it needs a backdrop down the middle of the new section?

I think the second bend in the class tracks may be just a bit OTT. Might be worth comparing the track capacities with and without the S curve to see if it makes any significant difference.

[davefoxx]

Dave,
    I can't put my finger on it, but there is something about Hamlet that just does not flow. The sharp radius turn between Aberdeen and Hamlet is also a little troubling.  I don't know if double tracking the section between Aberdeen and Hamlet would help? I just can't put my finger on it, but it almost looks like it needs a backdrop down the middle of the new section?

Rich,

It needs further tweaking.  I agree that it's ever-so-slightly off that I keep looking at the yard layout, too.  I think it's the "S" in the class tracks.  I'll try to reduce that "S," hopefully without reducing the yard capacity.

The radius turn between Hamlet and Aberdeen is set at approximately the same radius of most curves on the existing door: somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-3/8".  That, I think, I can live with, especially with the long easement from Aberdeen entering that curve.  A highway bridge will cross the sharpest portion.  While I could put a larger radius curve there, I'm doing everything I can to keep from eating up too much of the length of my A/D and classification tracks.  I would prefer to keep it a single track, to help separate Aberdeen and Hamlet.  Although, it's shorter than a train length, it still requires operating the SBD as a single track mainline with passing sidings.

I'm not looking forward to building those two curved turnouts without a Fast Tracks jig.  But, as Chris333 demonstrates, jigs are unnecessary.  I just have to learn how. 

Thanks,
DFF