Micro-Trains 10-1-2 Sleeper Schemes

[Sokramiketes]

As some people think I'm being too harsh on Micro-Trains, I decided to do some research to make sure I'm not being unfair.  My concern with the coaches is that we're never going to see proper schemes.  So I started with the 10-1-2 Sleeper which was first released in June 2010.  MTL has had a year and a half to release schemes on that body style.  Here's where they stand:

June 2010 - Pullman - "No Name" - Generally OK but conversations on the gold leaf lettering being too old for A/C cars occured.

June 2010 - Great Northern - "Hidden Lake" - Hidden Lake was a Plan 3585 car but was sold to Erie.  No other Hidden Lake cars appear in the Pullman lists so apparently this is a foobie to get GN Empire Builder paint on a 10-1-2.  GN has been a big seller on the freight car side for MTL so one assumes they were hoping for carryover sales to the heavyweights.  However, the GN cars are still available for sale direct through MTL on their website, so they are still sitting on inventory.  Maybe if they painted the window frames on the car orange (or earlier lighter green?) like the Empire Builder Scheme is supposed to have they would have sold more. 

October 2010 - ATSF - "Moose Lake" - Moose Lake was a Plan 3585B car originally but these cars were rebuilt to 3585F around 1937 which removed one vestibule from the car.  Either early or late the car was never a 3585/3585A like the MTL car. Again MTL seemed to pick a "popular" road name instead of a proper one.

Jan 2011 - PRR - "Villa Royal" - Villa Royal was a 10-3 sleeper.  Since the 10-1-2's were Lake series cars it seems like it would be easy to spot a problem even if looking at a photo that might look like a 10-1-2 on one side... 

Mar 2011 - UP - "Lake Livingston" - First proper scheme and name!  (Assuming you can ignore the awful shade of Harbor Mist Gray that MTL continues to use.)

In a year and a half MTL is 1.5 for 5.  (half point for Pullman on the letterboard in the wrong color, full point for UP even if color is off)

Now, is there an excuse?  Jerry put together a great page on the 10-1-2 cars here: http://passcarphotos.info/Varnish/Pullman_3585.htm
And he provided that info to MTL direct, but they've ignored it apparently.  Maybe it's too many words and not enough pictures.  Well, then MTL should just open up a Branchline HO catalog (Now Atlas) and pick some schemes that look pretty.

These are PROPER and WONDERFUL and COLORFUL schemes that can go on the 10-1-2.  I'm not even going to be picky on A/C types, but at least get a Lake series 10-1-2 scheme on the cars:













So there it is, what am I missing?  Just tact? 

[FrankCampagna]

Did you suggest these to Micro-trains?

Frank

[Sokramiketes]

Did you suggest these to Micro-trains?

Frank

Jerry sent his complete list of names and railroad owners directly to MTL, or at least links to the pages he developed which cover all this information. 

[JoeD]

Those schemes will be done with time, but the effort right now is to try and offer all the cars in the road names we have released in the past.  The overwhelming requests have been to do just that.  Our customers are wanting to do full trains in their favorite roads regardless if they are prototypical or not.  Not everyone exists in a "it has to prototypical or nothing" bubble.  The majority just want to have fun and run some trains on the kitchen counter when the wife is out of the house, and don't get their nuts in a bind if the window spacing doesn't match the specific prototype.  You may not like how we do business, or even want to try and understand it, but it doesn't require insults to get your point across. 

Joe

[JoeD]

No fun in doing that 

Joe
MTl

Did you suggest these to Micro-trains?

Frank

[mcjaco]

You may not like how we do business, or even want to try and understand it, but it doesn't require insults to get your point across.

But it's the American way!   

[asarge]

You know Mike, those are proper and wonderful and colorful schemes. I could even sell a few of the D&RGW's, B&O's and that last Pullman scheme. But we have sold EVERY one of the cars they have done thus fare except for the November releases, but they will sell sooner or later. But prototypical fidelity and selling product don'rt share the same track as often as most on this here forum would like to believe and most don't neccessarily care about what the most prolific proto-police here say. So yeah, maybe you are being a wee bit too harsh and maybe could use a little more tact but BFD, so could alot here so you're not really out of line.

Now I'm also not going to profess that our not so little shop down here in North Atlanta is indicative of what sells in the rest of the country but Joe please tell me you don't really believe this,

The majority just want to have fun and run some trains on the kitchen counter when the wife is out of the house,

That would be a horrible miscalculation. Yes most don't adhere strictly to prototype fidelity, but the majority do a little mkore modeling than the kitchen table, or a layout they can shove under the bed. There is around te Christmas tree! 

Seriously N scale has grown beyond the simple tabletop layouts.

[Sokramiketes]

Those schemes will be done with time, but the effort right now is to try and offer all the cars in the road names we have released in the past.  The overwhelming requests have been to do just that.  Our customers are wanting to do full trains in their favorite roads regardless if they are prototypical or not.  Not everyone exists in a "it has to prototypical or nothing" bubble.  The majority just want to have fun and run some trains on the kitchen counter when the wife is out of the house, and don't get their nuts in a bind if the window spacing doesn't match the specific prototype.  You may not like how we do business, or even want to try and understand it, but it doesn't require insults to get your point across. 

Joe

I'm sorry I said, "special magic fairyland Pullman train" since you took it as an insult.  The rest of my heavyweight discussion is just the facts, man. 

I don't like how MTL does business.  I'd like to understand, but what I see is a company with so much potential just lost at sea when it comes to this industry.  Sure not everyone operates in "prototype or nothing" fashion.  But if you make a foobie, it will only sell to those that don't care.  If you paint something fancy and prototype, you could sell to BOTH crowds. 

[Sokramiketes]

You know Mike, those are proper and wonderful and colorful schemes. I could even sell a few of the D&RGW's, B&O's and that last Pullman scheme. But we have sold EVERY one of the cars they have done thus fare except for the November releases, but they will sell sooner or later. But prototypical fidelity and selling product don'rt share the same track as often as most on this here forum would like to believe and most don't neccessarily care about what the most prolific proto-police here say. So yeah, maybe you are being a wee bit too harsh and maybe could use a little more tact but BFD, so could alot here so you're not really out of line.

Now I'm also not going to profess that our not so little shop down here in North Atlanta is indicative of what sells in the rest of the country but Joe please tell me you don't really believe this,

That would be a horrible miscalculation. Yes most don't adhere strictly to prototype fidelity, but the majority do a little mkore modeling than the kitchen table, or a layout they can shove under the bed. There is around te Christmas tree! 

Seriously N scale has grown beyond the simple tabletop layouts.

You're talking about selling out in terms of your shops standing monthly order?  How many of each does your shop get?  4?  I noticed today that most stuff back to the original GN releases is available still direct through Micro-Trains.  They apparently arn't selling out.

Des Plaines has been clearing out the passenger cars too, which is better than all MTL freight car releases lately, but we haven't seen so much demand that we've reordered lots of additional cars. 

[asarge]

Mike, our standing order, and I have had to go back to the well and get more a few times, especially on the Pennsy Cars and the RPO's. We get to decide what our standing order is and even though we have more left from November than I would like, we tend to sell them with in 3 months of release.  They also tend to sell better than the other cars although the PS4427's do pretty well.

[Sokramiketes]

But prototypical fidelity and selling product don'rt share the same track as often as most on this here forum would like to believe and most don't neccessarily care about what the most prolific proto-police here say.

Few more thoughts on this comment...  When companies release multiple paint schemes in a run, I almost always see the prototype schemes sell out faster than the foobies.  I most recently noticed this on the first run of WoT 70' baggage cars.  I didn't pick up a T&P in time at the LHS and it was the first scheme that Walther's sold out of.  I had to call around to find one. (Thanks Chuck!) On the huge Walther's line of HO passenger cars I see the same thing all the time.  Prototype schemes sell out first. 

If something is a road I model specifically and a foobie, I might buy it anyway.  Most people probably think the same thing.  If something is prototype but not a road I specifically model, I still have an urge to buy it.  But if it's a foobie in a road I don't model, then there's no way I'd be enticed to buy it.  It just seems like MTL is aiming for the smallest part of the Venn diagram and doing OK despite their efforts, not because of them. 

So, MTL is rationing these out so slowly that people are buying up foobies a little quicker than normal so they can repaint if they feel the need.  That slants their numbers, but doesn't prove much about the market and how to sell MORE trains.

[bbussey]

To be fair regarding the Pennsy scheme on the 10-1-2 model, MTL did make amends with the release of the 10-1-2 runner pack.  The set consisted of three properly-categorized Lake-series cars, and utilized correct car names for prototypes that were equipped with mechanical A/C (which was far less prevalent than ice-cooled A/C on PRR equipment).  So arguably, those three cars are the most prototypically-correct schemes on the model.

Would it have been better if the single car had been correct?  Yes, from all aspects.  But MTL did make the corrections when it came time to release the runner-pack, and they should be given kudos for that.

[Sokramiketes]

I knew about the 12-1 Runner Pack but missed that they did the 10-1-2's in a 3pk as well.  Kudos! 

I also see now that MTL is sold out of the PRR 10-1-2 runner packs... now that I need to find a set.  What does that say about prototype schemes? 

[sixpakpop]

I also see now that MTL is sold out of the PRR 10-1-2 runner packs... now that I need to find a set.   

MB Klein has 7 sets left as of 2 P.M. And you can tack on an observation car! They have 10 of them....

[Sokramiketes]

Those schemes will be done with time, but the effort right now is to try and offer all the cars in the road names we have released in the past.  The overwhelming requests have been to do just that.  Our customers are wanting to do full trains in their favorite roads regardless if they are prototypical or not.  Not everyone exists in a "it has to prototypical or nothing" bubble.  The majority just want to have fun and run some trains on the kitchen counter when the wife is out of the house, and don't get their nuts in a bind if the window spacing doesn't match the specific prototype.  You may not like how we do business, or even want to try and understand it, but it doesn't require insults to get your point across. 

Joe

Ok, I've been working on another what-if scenario to explain the frustration.  Take a look at the Hiawatha by FVM.  What MTL is doing, tooling prototype cars and then not painting them in the prototype schemes, would be akin to FVM tooling the Hiawatha and then painting it in Santa Fe and Union Pacific and PRR because "most people don't care and those are the popular road names" before painting it in Milwaukee Road colors!.  MTL is the only company actively making this arguement that stuff doesn't have to be prototypical.  Why is the rest of the industry moving away from that model?  Do you think there are enough Milwaukee modelers to support a full 1935 Hiawatha with engine, or do you think the precision of the model and the fact that it was prototypical caused people that don't model the Milwaukee Road to buy a set?

And before it comes up again, I'm not against adding in "close" schemes or even "fantasy" schemes.  What I'm against is not offering the prototype schemes in conjunction.