DeLuxe Hit Hard

[sirenwerks]

My post had no targeted accomplishment except to add a POV; one which you seem to take umbrage with, Dave. Perhaps I should have taken my thought to a philosophy forum where the need for empathy is removed but I find it curious that, because we're all in on the joke, we MRRers occasionally focus our balk at people who buy houses next to RR tracks and then complain about the noise; but voicing similar opinion about not living in an environmental bubble meets resistance.

[wcfn100]

...typhoon season (yes, typhoon season in the desert).

Monsoon. 


Jason

[conrail98]

My post had no targeted accomplishment except to add a POV; one which you seem to take umbrage with, Dave. Perhaps I should have taken my thought to a philosophy forum where the need for empathy is removed but I find it curious that, because we're all in on the joke, we MRRers occasionally focus our balk at people who buy houses next to RR tracks and then complain about the noise; but voicing similar opinion about not living in an environmental bubble meets resistance.

I took umbrage with what you said because the fact is a number of these towns and homes have been next to these creeks for decades, if not a century or two in some cases. I will exclude development on barrier islands from this conversation because I agree, to an extent, that they should not be surprised when issues with flooding and hurricanes arise. What has changed and changed dramatically is the areas upstream from these homes/towns that used to be vast wilderness areas capable of absorbing if not wholly then a good portion of the type of rain these areas received. That is no longer the case and effective drainage and storm water management wasn't effectively dealt with until laws were passed in 2002. So while it sucks that DI has to deal with the cleanup don't disparage anyone's situation by making general accusations that these people should expect flooding by living next to a creek or river, etc. Developments upstream, as we are seeing, are causing all sorts of havoc downstream, in places that have had zero flooding and those that expect it. One, I hope everyone affected can get back up on their feet sooner rather than later, but I also hope governments at all levels realize the affects of sprawl and what needs to be managed/mitigated otherwise this cycle will repeat with every significant (and even insignificant) weather event,

Phil

[sirenwerks]

Monsoon. 

True that. Darn, and no malapropism points...

I took umbrage with what you said because the fact is a number of these towns and homes have been next to these creeks for decades, if not a century or two in some cases. I will exclude development on barrier islands from this conversation because I agree, to an extent, that they should not be surprised when issues with flooding and hurricanes arise. ...

Phil

It's called a natural disaster but, in this case, there's nothing naturally occurring about, no matter how old, the houses or businesses we build or rent near water sources or on flood plains or the roads and bridges or infrastructure that cross them, etc. so the fault, as it may be labelled, is largely ours. You're right, we make grave errors in development, but land rights have been a primal component of American history and governance - and with it the "F U, I got mine, every man for himself" attitude that is reinforced by cashflow. My thrust, that seems to be mistaken for schadenfreude, is that the east coast is largely no longer paideumatic and ignoring the implications of its choice.

[Scottl]

The hydrologist in me is reminded about how important land use changes are for floods.  Areas that were settled decades or even centuries ago and were comparatively safe, are now at risk because the rivers and water table are changing as land cover is modified, wetlands filled in, improved drainage in cities, etc.  All sorts of things that used to slow the wave of water down are often affected for the worse. Changing climate (natural or otherwise) also affects flood characteristics.  The 100-year flood plain is a best guess, with plenty of unrealistic statistical assumptions.
.
Sometimes, the flood is just too big, no matter what, but the goal posts are constantly moving in terms of flood safety. I wish I could do something to help Dave at DeLuxe- that is a tough hit.  I'll do my best to support you by keeping the orders coming in.

[bbussey]

The reason the damage was so severe inland in New Jersey and New England is because of the unusually high amount of rain the area has seen this year.  The ground already was saturated prior to the storm, which led to two conditions - the hurricane water had nowhere to go, and trees could be blown over more easily because the ground was more soft than normal.  The peninsula of New Jersey is full of and surrounded by lakes, bays, reservoirs, rivers and tributaries, and when a rain-heavy year occurs there always is flooding and there always are power outages (mostly when sub-stations go under water).  While this hurricane has done considerable damage, it's not as if the level of damage done is unprecedented - in New Jersey at least.  Far more damage and flooding occurred in north Jersey two springs ago when a Nor'easter blew through - thousands of trees down everywhere, taking power lines with them; people without power for up to two weeks; and no operating sump pumps to push the water out.  I've seen ten feet of standing water on Main Street in Bound Brook.  I've seen a half-mile stretch of US-46 at the I-80/NJ-23 interchange turned into a giant lake by the Passaic River that took a week to recede.  I've seen NJ-17 in Paramus turned into a river with rapids.  So it's not as if we Northeasterners are unaccustomed to such things.

And there is one disaster element the Northeast handles better that no other area handles better:  severe winter storms.

[wcfn100]

And there is one disaster element the Northeast handles better that no other area handles better:  severe winter storms.

Minnesota is unimpressed.

Jason

[conrail98]

Bryan, you're right on that. Philadelphia had set a record for rainfall in a month the Thursday prior to Irene making its mark on the Delaware Valley. I know many other areas of the northeast were pretty close to record levels prior to Irene also,

Phil

[FrankCampagna]

The flooding in the Catskills was unprecedented. The 1857 Blenheim covered bridge was destroyed. Buildings that had withstood floods for decades were washed away. Lives were lost. Roads and bridges destroyed. Coworkers and family were involved. Two tourist railroad operations, the Delaware and Ulster Rail Ride in Arkville, and the Catskill Mountain Railway in  Phoenicia are closed indefinitely. People who are from here are too poor to move if they wanted to. Flood insurance? See the previous sentence. We will, however, survive. Dave, keep your chin up, and good luck.

Frank

[wm3798]

The rainfall suffered in Vermont and the rest of New England is on a par with what Agnes wrought over the Susquehanna valley and environs four decades ago.  The main difference is that the valleys up there are steeper and narrower than the Susquehanna, so the water accumulated and moved a lot faster, causing more dramatic results.  (Although images of the Susie Q lapping at the tops of the arches of Rockville are pretty dramatic when you figure the valley is about a mile wide right there... )  Bryan will recall the same type of damage in the steeper, narrower Patapsco valley, and my recollections are of the Jones Falls and Gunpowder valleys.  All three wiped important rail lines right off the map, one of them permanently (the NC).

And being a life long denizen of the lower Northeast, I have to agree with Jason... we've got nothing on the upper midwest when it comes to stoically shoveling snow.  Between DC and Philadelphia, anyway, we get completely mental, closing schools and cleaning out the grocery stores at the very mention of a dusting...

Lee

[wcfn100]

Out of all the crazy weather I saw in Minneapolis like 21" of snow in a day, or -32 actual temp (not wind chill), the one that always amazed me is where one county recorded a temperature change of 71 degree in a single day.  I went from 78 to 7 degrees. - Awesome!

Fortunately, temperature by itself doesn't generally cause damage like a flood.  So I definitely don't want to make light of that.  And snow is pretty harmless until it gets too heavy or melts and freezes a bunch of times.

If you want to read about a record setting good time, check out Oct. 31, 1991. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_Blizzard


Jason

[termite]

We were lucky here in my part of Va, wind and a little rain, while the Richmond area still has people without power. I spent the last 2 days there helping out an aunt, and her neighbors, clearing debris from their yards. We are used to that kind of damage in this area,(remember Camille, 1969 ?) but for those in the North East, where a Category anything hurricane is rare, this was the storm of the century.

[bbussey]

Minnesota is unimpressed.

Perhaps.  But Buffalo is on par with any city in Minnesota regarding snow.

[wcfn100]

Perhaps.  But Buffalo is on par with any city in Minnesota regarding snow.

I don't doubt it.  In fact I looked it up and they get much more snow on average.  That's what being ten degrees warmer on average gets you.

So while it's 40 degrees and snowing in Buffalo, it's below freezing in Minnesota without a chance of precipitation.


Jason

[up1950s]

It can snow below freezing .