Woodland Scenics "Smooth it"

[Chris333]

Well these pics suck. I just used 1/8" square wood for the forms. Close is spackle, middle is joint compound, far is cement.


None of them are colored yet. I think the joint compound has the best texture, but it shrank the most. The spackle is real soft, I can put a fingernail print into it even 2 days later. Plus it did shrink a little bit. I like the concrete, but it looks more like asphalt than concrete so it will still need painted. Any chips in the paint will be darker so I like that too.

[wcfn100]

Thx Chris.



Jason

[rogergperkins]

I do not recall the brand of light weight spackling that I used, but am very satisfied with the end results.
I do know that I used various brands and never had a situation where it did not dry properly.
I used a plastic putty knife to apply it for roads and used the W/S tape for the "forms."

The product I used could not be poured.  I applied with with a plastic putty knife.

I know it was much less expensive that the product that W/S was selling for use for roads.
I do not recall seeing "Smooth It."   W/S had a pre-mixed compound when I initially tried the system about 7 or 8 years ago.  It was more expensive than light weight spackling which I was already using on my layout.

[bbussey]

... None of them are colored yet. I think the joint compound has the best texture, but it shrank the most. The spackle is real soft, I can put a fingernail print into it even 2 days later. Plus it did shrink a little bit. I like the concrete, but it looks more like asphalt than concrete so it will still need painted. Any chips in the paint will be darker so I like that too...

Before reaching a final conclusion, I suggest making a mold box to pour the cement into - maybe 1/8 inch deep, with the bottom of the box being the texture you want to see on the road surface.  Then see if the cement is more to your liking.

[SkipGear]

Before reaching a final conclusion, I suggest making a mold box to pour the cement into - maybe 1/8 inch deep, with the bottom of the box being the texture you want to see on the road surface.  Then see if the cement is more to your liking.

I like the idea of using actual concrete just because of the color match. Keep in mind as concrete ages, its color changes. It takes a few years to fully cure and as it does, the color slowly changes. It may not look the same later as it does now.

As far as pouring it into a mold and making street panels upside down, that would be fine for city streets, sidewalks, or regular shapes but I can't see doing that for what Chris is building. He needs pavement/concrete in and around the tracks in plenty of unusual shapes from the looks of things so far. Is the concrete sandable to knock off the high spots? How about a minature rotary powered float to smooth out the concrete as it sets.

The spackle is real soft, I can put a fingernail print into it even 2 days later.

I don't usually put it on that thick. I try to keep it as thin as possible. I have even done some skim coats on 3mm thick foam, let it dry and then cut out road panels from that. You can flex the foam and get all kinds of interesting cracking if you like. I typically do it in a two step process. First I do a skim coat in the area that I want it, let it dry over night or more. Then I come back over it with a second thin coat, this time smoothing out any dips and voids. After that I come back and lightly sand the top of it to smooth it out more and that adds some weathering and color variation to it. To clean up the edges, I will trim them with an Xacto knife then scenic up to the edge. You can make a nice formed edge that way if you would like.

The nice thing about it being a little soft is that you can put in expansion seam lines with a straight edge and the blunt side of a hobby knife. When the spackle is tinted through out, you don't have to worry about color showing through. It also keeps it from cracking as easy because it is a little softer.

[tehachapifan]

This is all done with WS "Smooth-It".......





I am pleased with the results and find it very nice to work with.

Russ

[DKS]

I like the idea of using actual concrete just because of the color match. Keep in mind as concrete ages, its color changes. It takes a few years to fully cure and as it does, the color slowly changes. It may not look the same later as it does now.

This is a nice idea in theory, except that in the real world, concrete is exposed to the elements. Acid rain, plant debris, rusting metal and all manner of other influences on its color are absent in the model world. Simulating these influences will require coloring the concrete artificially, so the reason for using concrete in the first place becomes moot.

[Ian MacMillan]

Words are cheap and meaningless and opinions vary (especially from mine).  If any of the pictures on that article where big enough to see anything...

Jason

Sorry, the photos are larger but it looks like the CMS upgrade killed the larger photo linking.

I can get a closer one but here is the wing wall.
Super size
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qou58IiXVls/SnmYaJycXAI/AAAAAAAAm2A/nZbDstQL7r8/s1600/IMG_4477.JPG



The texture can be varied by the mold. For these abutments I used styrene which produced the smooth texture of poured concrete in bridges around here but the end product was very glossy. It took 4 coats of Dulcoat to kill it and get rid of the shine, but I was very happy with the results. On some of the newer ones I cut screen mesh and put it into the mold to act like rebar and give the the casting some strength.

This is a nice idea in theory, except that in the real world, concrete is exposed to the elements. Acid rain, plant debris, rusting metal and all manner of other influences on its color are absent in the model world. Simulating these influences will require coloring the concrete artificially, so the reason for using concrete in the first place becomes moot.

In all my castings the color was not uniform, giving a nice variation of color. It is kinda uniform when it first comes out of the mold but as it dries it gets the realistic outside world colors. But for me, it was mostly the texture I was looking for, color was second.

[wcfn100]

Thanks Ian. I'm going to save that shot for later.  I'm having a hard time being objective after looking and reading for the last few days.  Knowing that it's actual cement, it's easy to make a case for the texture to be a bit course for N, but it does look really good at the same time.


Jason

[Chris333]

Hope this quickie in "paint" will show you what all I need to concrete:


It is a large area, but I can do it in sections. My track is .106-.108" tall so I bought .100x.060" styrene for my dams. In most places the dam will go right up to the ties.

The concrete sanded down and I painted it with watered down WS concrete "top coat":

You can see some of the scratches, but those could buff out.

The spackle and joint compound also sanded easy, but it's hard to get a nice pic of it all sanded. I really think I'll go with the concrete and give it a this wash like the above photo. I should go see if I can scribe it!

[Chris333]

I just noticed "David" in David's photo, LOL.  I was soooo into the sidewalk that I didn't even notice you there. You look a little grumpy. 

[Chris333]

So how about this:




Just styrene painted with texture paint.

[DKS]

You know, it's funny Chris, I was going to recommend styrene instead of spackle or concrete. I'd be nervous working with that stuff around that track and especially the switches. Styrene is clean and you have total control over where it goes, or not.

As for the texture people are looking for, if you reduce real concrete down 160 times, you end up with something about as smooth as flat paint on styrene. Unless it's crumbling and decayed, of course, but even then the texture will be more subtle than you might think.

Incidentally, Chris, it looks like you're shooting under tungsten light. Does your camera have a manual white balance setting? If so, set it to tungsten, and the color will look better...

[DKS]

You look a little grumpy. 

Yeah, well I was having a really hard time getting the camera angle just right, and I was getting very tired of tweaking the camera, setting the timer, posing, getting up to check the image, tweaking the camera, setting the timer, posing, getting up to check the image, tweaking the camera, setting the timer, posing, getting up to check the image...

[pnolan48]

It seems we are trending toward styrene with rattle-can paint. I love styrene, as a 4 x 8 sheet costs about $20, which will make a lot of roads and parking lots. David is absolutely correct that the texture of 1:160 concrete would be pretty smooth, but I think the human eye (not the camera) compensates for scale, and probably in both directions, that is, larger or smaller.

I've been able to get Portland Cement in fairly small (a gallon?) buckets at Home Depot. The price, for this Yankee, is a bit ludicrous, but I guess the disposal problem goes away. When I did buy an 80-lb bag (including stucco) I usually had an outside project, so considered it "free" for my model railroad.

One of the secrets of smoothing joint compound is to make a first rough pass, then let it dry a bit (an hour or so, or maybe three), then go after it again. If you flex the smoothing tool into a slight curve with your fingers (forget the handle, or remove it), and tilt it slightly, the smoothing will go much easier. In mudding a wall joint with this flex, you create a very slight imperceptible crown while totally removing any compound at the edges. This applies to 8" and longer blades in real life, but I've used it with the plasticky cheapy smoothing tools, mostly for fiberglass.