Railcams

[Bob Bufkin]

Ran across this one this morning
http://virtualrailfan.com/fwc/funnelcam2_test.html

Folkston, GA

+

I've been watching this one on and off for about a month.  Guess I'm watching at the wrong time because I rarely see angthing except at night.  Don't really like the angle and their original cam was much better. 

[davefoxx]

Don't really like the angle and their original cam was much better.

+1.

[C855B]

There was a train going by when I brought it up just a couple of minutes ago. I like the response and the stream quality - it's obvious (to me) that it's an Axis camera, but it's running through a distribution server because the stream is Flash. I wish I could find out what server software they're using because the QuickTime-compatible video I have on mine is a bandwidth hog, so all it takes is a couple of people on the camera and performance goes into the dumper. Unfortunately "virtualrailfan.com" gets nothing but the stream - no info, no colophon.

I guess the new location depends on the internet drop. Something with enough "up" speed to support video is expensive ($80-100/mo). If they had a dedicated drop at the old location, it is likely they lost their funding. You have to put the camera where you have a big pipe.

[davefoxx]

If they had a dedicated drop at the old location, it is likely they lost their funding. You have to put the camera where you have a big pipe.

Possibly.  But, if my memory serves me correct, it's almost like they zoomed waaaaaaay out on the camera rather than moved it.

[Bob Bufkin]

So far the worst railcam out there has got to ge the Dalton Diamond.  I don't even remember the last time it was working.

[ljudice]

I re-subscribed to Railstream - after testing it a year or so ago...

The HD cam at Berea is very nice,  but...

Overall, the service is just incredibly flakey - constant freezes, crashes, etc...

I have 105 mb/s connection so I don't think that's the problem.

Anyone else?

[C855B]

That's typically an outgoing bandwidth problem in the "last mile", i.e., the connection between the camera and the cloud. Check other cameras they offer to see if Railstream has the same issue elsewhere, and, if so, then it's their outgoing pipe.

[Bob Bufkin]

I wish they would upgrade the Horseshoe Curve cam.  About half the time it will not even load and when it does it is jerky.

[C855B]

I wish they would upgrade the Horseshoe Curve cam.  About half the time it will not even load and when it does it is jerky.
...
So far the worst railcam out there has got to ge the Dalton Diamond.  I don't even remember the last time it was working.

I suspect both locations are in internet deserts. Outgoing bandwidth is precious, and video is a huge hog of the outgoing pipe. Rural and small-town locations are typically deficient with apportioning the fractional upload stream, the network architecture biased 100X or more toward consumers of inbound data. Video is especially vulnerable to this because to have a usable stream, you need to get your packet delivered within 30ms, every 30ms. If the network switches are programmed like I said for higher inbound QoS, high-density outbound users are, frankly, hosed.

This is also a factor of some/many of these railcams trying to use residential-grade internet drops, which, again, assume inbound data rates >> outbound rates. Minimum "up" rate has to be 1mbps to support video, even at low framerates, and if you're dependent on twisted pair (telco) drops or - heaven forbid - cellular drops, you're typically good for no better than 600kbps.

You gotta pay for a big outbound pipe. My camera (and servers) are on a 30/6 connection, and I still see freezes and frame drops at a paltry 15fps framerate.

[ljudice]

Yep their problem seem to be across all of the locations and it has gotten much worse since last year.  I'm suspecting it's a combination of issues at the camera location and their server. 

I think he has the right model, I'm happy to pay a few bucks for the service, but when it freezes every 10 minutes - and usually when a train is there - since I presume this drives up the bandwidth requirement.... 

[C855B]

... usually when a train is there - since I presume this drives up the bandwidth requirement....

Astute observation. Yes, modern video modes (i.e., not MPEG-1 or MPEG-2) highly compress the stream by transmitting only the changed pixels, only periodically refreshing the full base image. When you tune a stream (or pipe) for idle content, you can get a nice image because the demand is low, but as soon as you get action which changes a big fraction of the frame, the bandwidth demand spikes and you smash into processor or pipe limits, with not-pretty results.

When I'd tune camera streams on sites with full PTZ (pan-tilt-zoom), the ultimate test was leaning on the pan button, letting the camera spin so every frame was completely changed, so much so that the predictive algorithms (MPEG-4 and h.264) became useless. That would tell me what the true bandwidth demand was so I knew what to tell the client to buy in terms of their internet connection. The pi$$er was they frequently wouldn't listen to that advice because doing it "right" was expensive, and then they'd complain - sometimes for years - about the crashing video and poor quality streams. Just thinking about this makes my recent retirement so much more satisfying. 

[ljudice]

Mike,

It is interesting, he had the upstream bandwidth meter on the cam image yesterday (i think this was only upgraded over the weekend) and sure enough it peaked
during trains (or cars) going past from like 900k  to  1500k or so...   During a rain storm it went up to around 2000k.

However - at night it was a steady 2000-3000k - I think the issue was the noisy image overwhelming the upstream link.  Service degraded a lot at night.

But today, nice weather, horrible service.  He has also taken the bandwidth meter off for some reason.

Not likely to renew at this rate.

[C855B]

Ah - yes, night degradation is a big deal. Like you noticed, CCD sensors get really noisy at low light levels. That's why most cameras with low-lux capabilities switch to B&W mode sometimes sooner than you'd normally want. But even in B&W the noise levels are high and there's not a lot you can do algorithmically without turning the image into mush.

Networked digital video is a difficult field. So many of the specs in the entire chain from imaging device to client viewer are "wishful thinking", and the real-world performance is frequently a disappointment. You don't want to get me started on the people who swear by the "performance specifications" for video streams over wireless links and would then beat me up that my video server integration was crap. My only salvation with my biggest client was that once they went to landline drops to the sites (at my urging), their problems vanished. Coincidence? I don't think so.

[Bob Bufkin]

Since I had an automatic Java update I have not been able to see the Trains webcam at Rochelle.  That is just plain dumb on someones part.

[Kevin Yutz]

The Folkston cam in Folkston, GA ( the one at virtualrailfan.com) is getting a rework along with new cameras and a new site here soon.  Ill try to remember to post that info here once its all done.

I might actually even be installing the new cams in 2 weeks.....I'm aligned with the guys that own the current cams.  Not sure on if placement will change as unfortunately they don't own the town so they cant place them in 100% railfan perfect areas but they tend to be pretty nice when they work.  The other problem is the only currently provider of things in Folkston, GA is Windstream  Communications and to put it bluntly....they SUCK.

Comcast is moving in however and is signing up customers that will switch....so change is in the air there!

Also the cam in the middle of the town will retain sound( this is mounted on Whistlin Dixie,a shop in town) , while the other cam will not have sound as its located directly to the railside lodging ( http://railsidelodging.com/) thats there.