Asphalt shingle manufacturer

[sirenwerks]

I'm familiar with the contemporary GAF asphalt shingle plant located at the corner of Ponca and Boston in Baltimore. It receives granular material via two-bay covered hopper and truck and base fiber rolls via box car, with asphalt arriving via truck. But I am looking for a back dated version to fit the 60s. Does anyone have any photos, memories, first-hand knowledge of what such a facility would look like 50 years or more ago? Also - what rail service would be like? I'm imagining older (1930s-era) insulated tank cars at the end of their life with asphalt in, 40' box cars bringing base materials in, and possibly granular material shipped like grain and shipping shingles out or, possibly, covered hoppers delivering granular material by then. Anyone?

[Bruce Bird]

I know that the C&IM was hauling grit for shingles out of several central Illinois power plants back in the 50s- and they still do.  They hauled them in 2-bay covered hoppers, not unlike today.  Those hoppers had to go somewhere!

Bruce

[asarge]

Late 50's/early 60's likely wouyld have seen inbound granules in something like 2 Bay Covered hoppers PS2003, ACF 1958 or PS2893's. You are correct about insulated tank cars. Outbound loads in 40 and 50' Boxcars. You won't rellay need big tanks like the modern asphalt plants. Probably something like the Walters modular storage tanks kits. You also need a steam house to make steam to keep the asphalt hot.

[conrail98]

I was watching Pentrex's V&O Afton Division Finale this weekend and the Asphalt Shingle plant on the layout was discussed. I remembered this thread so I jotted down the types of cars talked about heading into/out-of the plant. They were Box Cars, Tank Cars for the asphalt, Covered Hoppers for the granules and more Tank Cars for chemicals. I know his layout is in the 70s but I think between that and what asarge listed, you should be pretty good on what you need for the types of cars,

Phil

[sirenwerks]

Thanks guys. I also found a reference to older oxide red SOO 70-ton PS2 covered hoppers hauling granules out of Kremlin WI and the tall logo-ed C&NW cars being used for such too.

I think I'll stick with older cars like the Pullman Standard and ACF 2-bay rib side cars, as what I know the larger capacity Center Flows (which are used now for the granule service) that were coming on-line then started their careers hauling cement, which was the dominant chore of the older cars, so the older cars were being shifted to less sexy services - like granule hauling.

Bruce, did C&IM have its own covered hoppers for the service you mentioned and, if so, what type were they?

Phil, thanks for the heads up on the V&O reference. I can't find any actual photos of older plants and am planning on back dating the Baltimore GAF plant somewhat. If you have a screen capture capacity and can snap a few frames of the Afton Division plant, I'd like to see how another modeler's portrayed such a plant.

[conrail98]

I'll do my best on the Afton Sub, however, I think it was pretty much the same as these shots from the Gauley Subdivision where he also did it. I'm not sure if he recycled the structures or not since the area he put the roofing industry on the Afton was the not completed/still under construction section prior to the move. Anyways, here are two shots and you could probably also check around the rest of the guys site:

http://www.modelraildayton.com/Gauley3/slides/VO06_04.shtml
http://www.modelraildayton.com/Gauley3/slides/VO06_05.shtml

HTH,

Phil

[Dave Schneider]

Bryan,

I took a look at the Kremlin area in 1938 aerial photos but that predates the mine. If you know of any shingle plants in Wisconsin I can take a look for photos. I am not as familiar with other locations around the country with respect to aerial imagery. The Kremlin mine was the reason for most of the two bay covered hoppers acquired by the Wisconsin Central in the 1990s.

Best wishes, Dave

[3DTrains]

I haven't looked in a while, but you might find more images of both layout versions from the V&O Yahoo Group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VandOHS/

The group's fairly active (Allen is not a participant), so you could always ask for any details (I believe several of the members there were regulars during operating sessions).

Cheers!
Marc

[Bruce Bird]

The C&IM did not own any LOs for hauling grit, but they were hauled and spotted by these things:



Bruce

[sirenwerks]

Bryan,

I took a look at the Kremlin area in 1938 aerial photos but that predates the mine. If you know of any shingle plants in Wisconsin I can take a look for photos. I am not as familiar with other locations around the country with respect to aerial imagery. The Kremlin mine was the reason for most of the two bay covered hoppers acquired by the Wisconsin Central in the 1990s.

Best wishes, Dave

Dave - I hadn't thought to look at what facility they came from, had just recently read a reference in a SOO PS-2 detailing how-to by Bob Rivard in an old RMJ. The article made a quick mention they were used to haul granules for asphalt shingles out of Kremlin, but did not mention the exact source or what type of 'granule'. I had presumed it was the same source as Bruce mentioned - a power plant, some sort of cinder or clinker from a coal-burning municipal or industrial power source. But after being confused and looking a little further I see that the granules - at least modern granules - are supposedly ceramic in nature and also have a 'leachable' copper component to slow algae growth. So the Kremlin producer could be a source of ceramic material, a power plant, or a copper outlet.

I do know all that much about the Upper Peninsula (aside that it gets pretty damn cold there) but I am assuming Kremlin's proximity to the UP might play into the copper factor and/or the bentonite supply for taconite production? Just a wild hunch that I'm throwing out there, maybe the double-whammy of a ceramic material with a high copper concentration in it?

Bruce - Love the homely looking RS1325, looks like the love child of a SW1200 and GP20. Out of curiosity, do you know the markings on the covered hoppers run on the C&IM?

Phil - wow, the V&O's plant is much smaller and less complicated than what I was imagining. The Baltimore GAF plant grew in fits and starts over the decades and developed architecturally with a corrugated cubist flare that Charles Sheeler would have loved. http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qjc9xv8mmcf5&lvl=17&dir=90&sty=b&form=LMLTCC The V&O structure looks like a freight house with tanks. I'll stick to using the Baltimore plant as my inspiration. Thanks.

[Dave Schneider]

Bryan,

The Kremlin plant uses mined rock as its source. These are metamorphosed volcanic rocks and may have a bit of copper in them, but it is far from the major copper deposits in the UP. The Kremlin mine is part of ISP Minerals http://www.ispminerals.com/locations.aspx and they have some plants on the east coast. It looks like there are a number of sources of granules, but I suspect that natural sources were more in use during the time time frame which interests you.

Best wishes, Dave

[wm3798]

The Ponca Street plant is a very model-able facility.  It's long and narrow, with rail service on one side and a neat streetscape on the other.  A very lineal facility, materials in on one end, finished product out on the other.  I believe they still ship by rail, too, but I know there's a huge warehouse for loading flatbed trucks.  It would make a great N trak module.

Lee

[sirenwerks]

The Ponca Street plant is a very model-able facility.  It's long and narrow, with rail service on one side and a neat streetscape on the other.  A very lineal facility, materials in on one end, finished product out on the other.  I believe they still ship by rail, too, but I know there's a huge warehouse for loading flatbed trucks.  It would make a great N trak module.

Lee

Agreed. Today, the plant receives granules in heavily weathered Center Flow-type and 2600cf PS2, base papers in Railbox cars and ships product via truck as well as the brisk movement of (more often than naught) 60 ft. hi-cube box cars from the new warehouse (so much so that there are two active parallel loading tracks at the warehouse). It has a very efficient track set-up for switching, with its own run-around; and I think the manner in which the trackage extends to a diamond across the main is nifty, not to mention the P&G plant is served through this trackage as well. The P&G plant itself is perfectly situated to be a flat-against-the-backdrop industry model and accepts all sorts of tank cars. http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qjc00k8mmr3m&lvl=19.759397648462397&dir=81.71314344048103&sty=b&form=LMLTCC

[nscalemike]

The C&IM did not own any LOs for hauling grit, but they were hauled and spotted by these things:



Bruce

One of the few things I miss from not living in Springfield, IL anymore!!  Oh well, last I saw they were wearing orange paint anyway.

[conrail98]

Phil - wow, the V&O's plant is much smaller and less complicated than what I was imagining. The Baltimore GAF plant grew in fits and starts over the decades and developed architecturally with a corrugated cubist flare that Charles Sheeler would have loved. http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qjc9xv8mmcf5&lvl=17&dir=90&sty=b&form=LMLTCC The V&O structure looks like a freight house with tanks. I'll stick to using the Baltimore plant as my inspiration. Thanks.

I don't know if I'd consider it small, it is taking up to 10 cars being delivered there, 3 or so of each type. Maybe add a story or two and some depth to the "freight house" and some more chemical/tank car are details and you'd have a pretty good sized model. I would expand the footprint of the supporting buildings but the general layout is what you'd want as it's relatively straight, like the one Lee mentioned, and would still give operating interest especially if tank cars aren't "unloaded" by the time the local the next day comes in (i.e., next ops session),

Phil