Building the Beer Line in N Scale

[Dave Schneider]

Thanks for the kind words Jim. It is great to FINALLY have a space in which to work. I have spent a couple of years planning, and planning, and planning. Its time to start building something! I hope to start with some benchwork this week, weather permitting. We have a series of windstorms blowing through and I have been spending most of my time dealing with the preparations and aftermath. So far the trailer has been solid in the wind (in excess of 70 mph). It is quite heavy with two layers of 5/8 drywall and 2x6 construction, so that helps.

I am still pondering layout height. This will be a combined layout/workshop area, with cabinets along the end walls. The layout will be above them, and I need to decide whether to have a working space beneath them. I also need to figure out what to do with the windows on the long wall opposite the door. I may replace them or block them out, but that will be next summer at the earliest. There is also the issue of the heating control box on the wall with the circuit panel. This is not a thermostat, but rather a rheostat for the electric baseboards, which makes moving it a bit more challenging. It is about 48 inches above the floor, which is right in the middle of things. I may end up covering it with a removable building flat if I can't move it easily.

I am also tying to ponder different lighting valances.  The plan is for a shadowbox type presentation, in part because it looks cool, and in part to allow me to cover the layout more easily and control dust. I welcome thoughts on this.

Best wishes, Dave

[mcjaco]

Love the openness to the plan, Dave.  You've got a lot going on, but it isn't crammed into the space.

[GaryHinshaw]

Great to see the progress Dave.  Given that your overall footprint is similar to mine, I'd agree that you have plenty of room to work with here.  One thing that could be very helpful going forward would be to print out full-size templates of your plan and rig up some temporary shelving to lay them out on so you can visualize things in 1:1.  I did that with may plan and it was very helpful to get a better sense of things (including shelf height), and it's pretty cheap & easy to do. 

What are your thoughts about the staging?  Will the end loop head down to lower-level staging?  If so, that will require either a helix or quite a steep grade to get enough clearance.  Could you have the staging live behind the main scene on the same level?

-gfh

[Dave Schneider]

Thanks Matt. There needs to be some room for a TV to watch football and a beer fridge. No compromise on that.

Gary, I too am glad to see some progress. The main obstacle was committing to spending the money to get the trailer set up. I am just  about there now...just need to deal with the flooring and windows at some point.

As for the plan, staging will be along the long wall under the Schlitz plant. I need to do the math to see what kind of grade is required to get it under the North Ave. bridge and Humboldt engine terminal. My hunch was that 2% would probably get me there. A helix doesn't seem like it would offer much of an advantage since the run to complete the loop is almost the same distance as a straight shot along the wall. I know that you have loops on the brain, but I would like to avoid it if I can!

Best wishes, Dave

[GaryHinshaw]

Ok, the long wall under the Schlitz plant is good.  Let's do the math: you have about 20' of run to get from the turn-back loop to the beginning of the long wall, where you'll want to locate turnouts for the yard.  At 2% this gives you about 5" of vertical clearance, which means 3" of space to accommodate all the subterranean infrastructure the main deck will require (roadbed, joists, wiring, etc.  It could be done, but there is no way you'll be doing any manual uncoupling there, and turnout maintenance would pretty much require the section to be removable. 

No one likes a helix, but restricted clearance is a drag too.  Do you have a pretty good idea for how the staging fits into the overall ops?  If it only involves short transfer runs, you could consider a steeper grade, but you don't win very much clearance with that.

[Dave Schneider]

Thanks for the help with the math Gary! And for the general discussion. I can see that a helix is probably needed. Staging ops will primarily be transfer runs between Humboldt and the rest of the world. There were at least 3 "Beer Trains" a day on the prototype, and many of them were 100+ cars. I may need to limit this a bit  but want reasonably long trains. As per the proto ops, they will arrive all the down to the Holton St. viaduct area, and then get pulled apart. The outgoing trains will be made up on one the adjacent tracks. I need to think about some crossovers in that area. So staging is pretty straight forward. Maybe a traversing table would be a handy way to deal with this. A reverse loop under Commerce St would be nice as well.

Best wishes, Dave

[brewery-railways]

Dave
I think a traverser table for the staging would be a good, workable option. If it can be arranged to pull forward of the layout above then manual handling of the rolling stock will not be a problem and you wouldn't need to worry too much about the clearances.
Best wishes
Steve Young

[Dave Schneider]

Hi Steve,

Welcome to The Railwire! Glad you found us here. Please consider posting links to your blog with your project, or starting a Layout Engineering Report thread. There are some great N scale modelers on this forum, and I am sure they would be interested in your layout development.

I will definitely consider a traversing table. May need some UK insight into the design!

Best wishes, Dave

[sirenwerks]

How about an elevator which, with multiple levels/tracks, can serve double duty as staging?  I have never seen one done so, but it could be situated in a front-of-the-layout position for easy access; and if properly designed it wouldn't present much of a view block either.  I'm imaging one with a service elevator level to serve in that specific duty during ops and multiple levels situated higher to provide a window.  While this would require a floor-to-ceiling frame - to lower the staging levels down low enough without the elevator level hitting the floor but it seems doable and functional. 

I've seen a number of write-ups on these in the recent past and could search my files for them if you'd like.  I know frame warpage and the smoothness of movement (not jittering so much in movement that there are constant derailments of exceptionally light N scale cars) are issues with such a design but there's plenty of brainpower in the a$$hat cloudsphere to come up with an engineering fete.

[Dave Schneider]

Bryan,

Thanks for the suggestion of a train elevator. I had actually looked into building one a couple of years ago when I was trying to shoehorn the Beer Line into my garage. Now that my glorious man cave has come along, I think that I have the space to use a more traditional approach. I have been looking into building a helix as Gary suggested, and I think that I should be able to pull that off without too much trouble. It won't look like a piece of Ikea furniture (like Gary's benchwork), but it should do the trick. Hope to start building some benchwork this weekend now that our windstorms have subsided. I have a three downed trees to deal with, but I should be able to put that off for a while.

Best wishes, Dave

[sirenwerks]

It won't look like a piece of Ikea furniture...

LOL, with your skills I'm certain it will definitely last longer than Ikea furniture.  Good luck on the trees.  The storms and wind just came through the DC area yesterday, and I watched the start of a funnel cloud pass directly over my head from the roof of the Department of Labor's HQ, headed for the multitudes in PG County, Maryland.

[Dave Schneider]

A couple more changes to the plan based on feedback from the Beer Line modelers group on Yahoo.



I have added a stub track near the helix to the right of the door. This is meant to represent the Center St. siding which was mainly used for reefer storage. It would be a handy place to make up cuts of cars for the Beer Train transfers.

I reworked Humboldt Yard to give it a more accurate layout. These flat stub end tracks needed as there is a downgrade from Humboldt through Schlitz.  I also added the Trostel Tannery and Schusters Warehouse. near the Holton Ave. Viaduct.

A view of Trostel with the cars on the Walnut St. Yard seen to the right of the building. Schusters is on the right.



A view of the Holton Ave Viaduct, Schusters (Gimbels at the time of this photo) and an L&N car on the Walnut St. Yard tracks.



I also added another track to the Commerce St. team tracks which was used mainly for hide unloading for the tanneries across the river which were not served by rail. Here is a close up of what I think is the unloading process.



Commerce St. was just below Humboldt. Its like someone designed  this to be modeled.



Finally, I broke up the long tangent between Schlitz and Holton St. The grade from just east of the C-House to Humboldt is 1.4 % and the downramp from the Roller Coaster to the C-House is about 3%. I have added a helix to the right of the doorway to reach staging under the Schlitz plant, or possibly Humboldt. This looks like a pretty workable plan, but it is possible that I have messed up something when planning the grades. Time will tell.

I ripped a bunch of plywood on Saturday, as it was actually a nice day. I am now ready to start building!

Happy for more suggestions or comments at any time.
Best wishes, Dave Schneider

[MichaelWinicki]

Question Dave...

It appears that Humboldt is the main yard for the layout.  What sort of purpose will the Walnut St. yard serve?

[Dave Schneider]

Question Dave...

It appears that Humboldt is the main yard for the layout.  What sort of purpose will the Walnut St. yard serve?

Michael,

This small yard mainly served cars to and from the Schlitz C-House. This was the main loading area for bottled and canned beer starting around 1958. Keg draft beer was loaded a couple of blocks away, just past where my plan is labeled bottle returns. It is a cool little yard, sort of perched on a little plateau. Here is a photo from the 1960s showing the yard, with the C House lead to the right.  The Holton St. Viaduct crosses from left to right, and Humboldt is to the top but not pictured.



Here is a shot from the Viaduct showing the Roller Coaster track, Walnut St, and the C House lead (to the left alone the retaining wall).



Finally, an overview of the area from 1970, which is represented in my plan on the left side and along the long wall.



Best wishes, Dave

[Chris333]

I bought that book you posted about the beer line a while back. Nowhere near the Erie, but it looks like a great place to watch trains. 

What about those couple buildings you had built that were further up the line?