China syndrome

[JDouglasFisher]

Funny, I take a hiatus from this site, and come back and this is the first thread I see in the forum...

Whats more funny is that everyone here is bickering over what China does, which although is part of the problem, it pales in comparison to the bigger problems we have here in the states.

I Love model trains, I always will. I want to get back into it desperately, but its too damned costly these days for this working class man to afford. I would rather build my own kits, and enjoy the satisfaction that it brings, but apparently I'm in the minority as the majority of modelers apparently want to be waited on hand and foot and have everything done for them (soon I reckon, they'll expect DCC to program itself too, because the current method requires too much brain thought and work..)

My hobbies now are playing Flames of War (and building/painting the associated WW2 15mm models) and rebuilding discarded lawn and garden tractors. Both these hobbies require some money as well, but believe it or not, both hobbies combined are cheaper than model railroading.

FoW gets more "play value" per dollar than model trains because every game you play against someone, the battlefields are different, the opposing army is different, the player has a different play style, and there are constant variations in luck regarding dice throws. In the end, it never gets boring... Model trains can't compare.

I used to say that we were competing with the likes of PS3 and Xbox, but now, with online browser massively multiplayer games, consoles are having to compete with real time MMP games such as "World of Tanks" which is FREE! (assuming you already have a decent computer and an internet connection)

Because we live in a "throw away" society, I've been fortunate to find decent lawn and garden tractors occasionally discarded curbside, and ironically, most only need some minimal maintenance to get back running again. I fix'em and sell them, because the working class like me can't afford $1,000+ dollars for a machine. (New Sears PGT9500 is something like $3,000.00 I understand and a real John Deere can cost as much as double that.....)

I can type the "list" of all things wrong, everything from China, to foreign affairs, to government, wall street, etc. But the easiest way to say it is this:

The problem is our complacency with ignorance in regards to how things work. (on ALL LEVELS)

Great spreads by Lee and Dr. Vollmer in the latest issue of N Scale, which is what reminded me of this site. However, when my subscriptions run out to both N scale mags at the end of the year, I probably won't be renewing. Not because they aren't good magazines, oh contrare, they are both excellent magazines. Sadly though, due to many differing forces at work, including the fact that Americans just refuse to engage their brains for a change, the hobby has successfully priced itself out of my affordability bracket.

Joe (just telling it as it is...)

[3DTrains]

I just picked up a Kaslo Shops kit and looking forward to building it. I noticed a recent trend where several manufactures have stopped producing undecorated locos. A real shame too. I don't mind stripping a loco if it only ever came painted (N Scale Intermountain), but sometimes it's nice to start with a clean slate (was Kato, but sadly no more - Atlas?).

Cheers!
Marc

[nscalesteve]

one major problem at the moment is also the US $ itself, your currency is worth barely nothing at the moment compared to other currencies on the world market. result, if you buy 'toys' from China they cost more...

[asarge]

The "China Syndrome" has apparently hit Athearn because they have no N scale announcements for June. and pitifully little in HO scale. Seems like it's gonna be a long cold summer for the major manufacturer's.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

It is almost as if China has a distinct, sudden dislike for model trains

[asarge]

I wonder if maybe either the quotes the manufacturer's are getting are what they consider too high or maybe more possible that the quotes the factory made were too low considering the spike in the price of oil over the last 3 months. Who knows, but either way the outcome is not good.

[inkaneer]

I'm still confused about the tooling.  Is it held captive in China or not?

[asarge]

Supposedly if the tooling was cut in China, it can't leave China. If it was cut elsewhere and goes to China, I guess it couyld come out, but someone would have to go get it and move it or take it and that's probably not very easy to do.

[Rossford Yard]

I am trying to do some business in China, and its still a funny place.  The company I am working with is sort of a private enterprise, but only for 50 years, when all its assets revert back to the govt.  I think most if not all companies are actually set up that way.

The govt is actually still officially against a lot of things, and a lot of private enterprise is technically illegal, but they look the other way because they want the economic boost.  However, they could at any time enforce various laws. 

Not to mention, the Chinese themselves have reputations as ruthless business people who just keep cutting your prices until you are losing money. 

Anyway, my two yuan.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

From what I have heard, all tooling that has entered China will never leave China. They will not alow any tooling wether it is owned by the producer, importer or contactor to leave the contry.

Basically, if Kader and others decide to play hard ball, we may very well loose three DECADES of tooling across all scales.

[asarge]

I wouldn't be surprised if that's already happened with one manufacturer.

[TiVoPrince]

Wondering
how long it will take for this 'abandoned' tooling to find a chineese owner.  Soon after, appearing on auction sites perhaps and even having a Hong Kong company name simillar to the original owner.  Realistically the only thing preventing this is a generally risk averse culture in china...

[victor miranda]

ok,
an item to be considered.

I suspect that if an Item is brought into this country (U.S.A)
and the item was made with 'kept' tooling,
the owner of the tooling would be able to gain ownership of the items.

I believe this was an issue with some Atlas/rr n-scale shells.

v

[inkaneer]

ok,
an item to be considered.

I suspect that if an Item is brought into this country (U.S.A)
and the item was made with 'kept' tooling,
the owner of the tooling would be able to gain ownership of the items.

I believe this was an issue with some Atlas/rr n-scale shells.

v

Yeah, maybe, but considering the USA past record in matters like this I would not be optimistic one bit.  Look at the steel industry's fight to keep foreign steel from being dumped illegally  in this country.   And by "being dumped" I mean sold for below the cost to produce it.  With China holding so much of our debt I don't think the government would act real quickly.   

[SkipGear]

On a more positive note....

Maybe this is just the post holiday lul. With longer delays in production, they expect items announced now to not arrive until after the Holiday buying season so they, like most years, back off announcments around this time.

Or.....

 With the N scale convention going on now and the NMRA show upcomming, and in Athearns neck of the woods so to say, they are saving up announcements for the show to make the show announcements stronger.

Just a little positive thinking in all the negative banter.