Illinois Central/Canadian National in N scale

[nscalemike]

Annex space in an adjacent room and cut a hole in the wall  .

I'd love to, but the only rooms adjacent is the kitchen (boss would frown on that) and garage (air conditioning/heat, dust, etc).

Back to Anyrail to play with the old plan and modified staging.  Here is a possibility:



Stub end staging for each direction, a connection for continued running, no pennisula (currently what exists is highlighted in yellow), no major track changes to either town.  I lose the grain complex and a destination for my 100 grain hopppers I have, but that doesn't mean I can't have a unit grain train as a runner though.  Will now have plenty of space so I could have a 6-10" pop out on either side for extra scenery.



Thoughts?  Better suggestions?

Thanks,
Mike

[Scottl]

Ha ha, I'm one to talk.  I could try to annex by cutting into the laundry room next door, but it did not get the needed permission from the planning committee.

I like that new version quite a bit.  How about bulging out the shelf next to the inner stub yard for a grain complex?  With the yards in the back, it could be an impressive scene.  It would minimally affect space for people in the room.

[nscalemike]

Something like this Scott?



Could very likely work nicely.

[mcjaco]

 I like that last idea the best. 

My issue with the staging is 1) the 18" clearance.  That's tight even for a slim dude. 2) There's always issues with something in staging no matter how much you try to avoid it. 

I helped a friend build an HO layout that was primarily staging, and the modeled portion was one town on the UP main through Nebraska. Basically you sat and watched 100+ trains roll through the town, and the operators really did all the work in the staging, moving trains from one end to the other.  We had a minimum of 24" clearance at the tightest spot, and that was really too tight. 

[Bendtracker1]

Something like this Scott?



Could very likely work nicely.

Mike,
I'm with Scott on this one.
I was thinking along the same line as Scott with the yards pushed closer together and then squeeze the elevator in about where you did.  With the Elevator near the two yards, it could help disguise the two yards from that of just open storage.  It seems that you can always find some sort of yard next to elevators.
Additionally, you could place some non-railroad related buildings in the upper left section to help hide the ends of the left most yard tracks.

If you would do away with the center staging yard, then you wouldn't need the Wye.  Another option that might be worth a look is to revamp the area where the Wye is now and increase some industry in that local.

Or as you said, you could always widen the benchwork a bit where the lower yard/LPG dealership is as at and put some building flats along that wall and/or widen the upper section a bit to give it a little bit breathing room.

[Scottl]

That looks really good to me.  A good mainline run and lots of switching opportunities.  The yards with that grain complex will look pretty impressive when full.

[nscalemike]

A few updates.  I am trying not to relay anymore of the two towns then I need to so changing those depths probably won't happen, at least not for now.  The big black box on the right end is a safe that must stay in the room somewhere.  Currently it is supporting the end of the pennisula and it is too tall to fit under the layout.  I don't think I need more industry and it will help to serve as a view block from one town to the next, so that is why I am thinking of placing it there.

[Scottl]

That is looking really good, I like the extra track in the bottom center too.  Maybe a little more track for the grain complex?  I am not sure the look you are going for there, but there is space to pull the edge out a bit and still make the reach manageable.

[GaryHinshaw]

Just catching up with the developments here.  I like the look of the latest plan, but the single-direction access to the short staging tracks seems a bit limiting.  I've lost track of it now, but could you remind us what the current plan actually looks like?  Setting aside the issue of limited aisle space (and I hate to be the one who said I told you so ), how do you like the operational aspects of the current plan?  Specifically, is the wye access to staging an important feature in the operations?

Another option for staging - which would require a more significant rebuild - is to put it behind the town along the top wall (like in your new plan, but right against the wall) and to have a short backdrop between it and the town.  You should be able to arrange things so that you can see it easily during ops (from a step-stool, and/or with mirrors), and if you make the backdrop removable, you could access it directly for maintenance.  Schematically, it could be something like this:

                          ___________ Staging __________
                         /                                                        \
                           ------------ Short backdrop--------------
                       /                                                             \
                      /_________ Town / mainline __________\
                     /                                                                  \

Advantages: double-ended staging with access in both directions; longer staging tracks.  Disadvantages: partially hidden; double-ended eats up storage space.

Cheers,
Gary

[nscalemike]

Gary, 

After reviewing the previous posts here I was quietly waiting for the "I told you so" part.  Yes, you did, and it was always a concern, but initial tests provided enough room until I lived with it for some time.  Oh well, live and learn.

I think the current plan is out there somewhere and it is basically what is two posts ago.  Where the 'new' staging yard is located is currently a large grain complex, an arrival/loading track for about 15 hoppers, and 3 short yard tracks to shuffle to when ready to depart.  The pennisula is staging.  I had already done away with the wye due to track and wiring issues.  The run through track is present, but each leg curves into stub end staging.  I haven't minded this so far, yes, stub end not ideal but since about 75% of the time I am running a local the staging yards do not see much action.

That being said, I'm still a fan of this plans operation, although there is no formal operation in place yet.  Still struggling with that as well.  But in my mind it seems there is plenty to operate local wise.  And since it is not there, the wye has not played a role in operations at all. 

I considered the staging option you mentioned when this was designed and again in the last few weeks.  My main concern is access.  I had 'behind the backdrop' staging on a short along the wall switching layout at the old house and hated it.  Couldn't see anything, couldn't access anything, etc.  I swore I wouldn't do that again.  This layout would be worse too because it's tall (55" or so) and there is a light valance over the backdrop.  If I am going through that big of a rebuild then I thought I would try something else. 

That all being said, I considered removing all staging almost and making this strictly a local branch line type layout with no run through.  I could have one track to build the local 0-5-0 style, use the yard in town 1, run to town 2 for switching, back to town 1 yard, and back to the staging track.  However, someday I will miss my autoracks, stack trains, Amtrak, and more.  Even with this, the continual run is actually not all that important either.  The main line is long enough after one lap I'm pulling out another train to run.

Scott,
Could you provide a drawing for the additional track you are thinking about at the grain elevator?  Not sure what I should do.

Thanks,
Mike

[MichaelWinicki]

I like this. 

I think what Gary has suggested has merit too.  Part of my staging is like that with the staging behind the town... But by including a couple easy to lift pieces of roadway I can access that staging without any problems.   Hard to access staging is not a good thing! LOL!

If you wanted another switching location you could run a switch-back off the long lead to the grain complex, to the building near the lumber yard.

[MichaelWinicki]

Gary, 

After reviewing the previous posts here I was quietly waiting for the "I told you so" part.  Yes, you did, and it was always a concern, but initial tests provided enough room until I lived with it for some time.  Oh well, live and learn.

LOL!

Lots of layout planners go through that.  They think their aisle ways are wide enough until "The Big Guy" shows up for an ops session and you quickly learn that they aren't.

[nscalemike]

Alright,  with the group discussion telling me there has to be a way we have arrived at this:



Double ended, 7.5' long, 5 track staging, with no center pennisula, no wye, and nothing behind a backdrop.  The stub staging vs double ended staging tradeoff is I loose 3 tracks and one of the ladders is on the lift out section crossing the doorway.  But, it is double ended now so it may be worth it.  I believe I can stage a train on each one though.  I think that is ok, as I mentioned most of the time I'm running the local. The length of each is about the same.  I would prefer about 8'-10' tracks, but 7.5' is about what I have now anyway.  Also, I might even try to fit one more.  I wouldn't mind getting a stub track running along the left wall coming from the bottom ladder to hold the grain train.    ****** I typed this but then before I posted I did edit the drawing to include this stub track.  My thoughts are to use this track for the grain train staging.

The grain complex has a bit of modification as well.  Put a run around there, and a switch back is present to serve an adjacent fertilizer plant.  I think I could spot a hopper or two and the occasional tank car of anhydrous ammonia??  This plant may be equipped with its own engine to do this work.  Still open to suggestions on this.  It is right when you come in the door so I do hope to make it a signature midwest scene.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mike

[MichaelWinicki]

Looking good Mike!

You may want to consider extending that one stub staging track, curving it around the main and connecting with the main between the grade crossing and the lumber yard. 

That would give you one very long staging track for one long train or two short trains.

[DKS]

Since you're starting with a clean slate, I might do something like this--



The safe is kind of like the 800-pound gorilla in the room, and even though you have it serving as a "scene divider" of sorts, I still feel it's intrusive. So, I'd tuck it back in the corner by the door, and work around the safe and the door together. Then, I'd move the staging along the long wall at the top to gain as much straight length as possible. I'd also connect it to the mainline with relatively long leads so the yard can be dropped down by an inch and a half or so, behind a short, removable backdrop (green line), to keep the yard accessible but more or less out of sight.