Illinois Central/Canadian National in N scale

[Bendtracker1]

I like it!

Ditto here!
One Question Mike...
How many ink cartridges did you go through?  LOL

That is a neat way to really test the space and design though.

Can't wait till the end of the week! 

[GaryHinshaw]

Looks great!  I'm a big fan of 1:1 print-outs for this kind of thing.

One question: are you sure you want to eliminate the runaround on the left side?  You've got nothing but facing point moves beyond the back-to-back curved turnouts in the upper right, so you'll basically have to do a lot of shunting back and forth through town to deal with that.  And the run-around that's there now is pretty short for the down-line spur capacity (possibly 40 cars by my estimate).  Of course you could back the whole train in from the main line...

Still, looking forward to the progress!
-Gary

[GaryHinshaw]

Here is one way to extend the runaround:



Another thing I notice is that the right end of the runaround dumps onto a shortish spur, so there is limited runaround capacity there, but the mid-siding crossover helps with that.

-gfh

[nscalemike]

Ditto here!
One Question Mike...
How many ink cartridges did you go through?  LOL

That is a neat way to really test the space and design though.

Can't wait till the end of the week! 

Only one ink cartridge, but I didn't print it in color, however, I did run out of computer paper halfway through the 118 sheets that was needed to complete the project, so when I went to buy more I picked up the extra ink just in case!

Looks great!  I'm a big fan of 1:1 print-outs for this kind of thing.

One question: are you sure you want to eliminate the runaround on the left side?  You've got nothing but facing point moves beyond the back-to-back curved turnouts in the upper right, so you'll basically have to do a lot of shunting back and forth through town to deal with that.  And the run-around that's there now is pretty short for the down-line spur capacity (possibly 40 cars by my estimate).  Of course you could back the whole train in from the main line...

Still, looking forward to the progress!
-Gary

That is the million dollar question for me right now.  My thoughts initially was to back the train from the main, then when I included the mill on the end of the line, I worked a passing siding in that area.  Then I became concerned that the train lenght would be greater than the passing siding, causing it to be useless.  So now I am back to backing the train.  However, if I find that becomes a problem, a runaround will be in order, at which point I could see either your option or the smaller option in the mill area.  I think the spur on the right side you are referring to is actually the lead from the branch to the main, it goes through the backdrop there. 

I am estimating average train length of 8-12 cars into and out of the paper mill.

Mike

[Bendtracker1]

Another thing I notice is that the right end of the runaround dumps onto a shortish spur, so there is limited runaround capacity there, but the mid-siding crossover helps with that.

-gfh

Mike,
I think Gary is referring to the sidings at the LPG dealer,  Gary correct me if I'm wrong.

With that in mind, what about something like this:



I didn't scale this but I think you should be able to make things fit.  Since you would loose a little length on the run around, you could move the top turnout closer to the street, then move the other turnout so that the street passes between the two turnouts.

Or if you decided on  a longer siding like Gary suggested, you could eliminate the top RED turnout before the street and move it further to the left.

I would have the lower end of the run around tie into the branch line lead instead of the sidings.  This would give you a little more room for a run around move with cars.

Just a thought.

[GaryHinshaw]

Yes, what Allen said.  To use the original siding as a runaround, you need space in the LPG spur.  I like Allen's reconfiguration - you could then eliminate the mid-siding crossover.  And you can make the siding as long as you want pretty easily.  One other question, re backing in: is the branch on any kind of uphill-grade getting to here?  If so, I would expect back-in moves to be problematic.

Once again - this is a great branch that will give you lots of fun.  I'm thinking I need something similar (the Arvin branch) in my new plan.

Cheers,
Gary

[Specter3]

I think in cases where there is constant work at a site such as the paper plant there is usually a switcher bases there. The turn servicing the site swaps cars out of storage tracks that are then moved around the site by the based switcher. A 44 ton GE or VO1000 or some such would work well.

[nscalemike]

Thanks for the input!  I do really appreciate it.

My thoughts had the straight leg of the last turnout on the right being the 'main', while the diverging route the spur for the LPG facility.  I knew the runaround was on the small side, approximately 3' total, but I thought I would back onto the branch, pull forward to the turnout, then I could runaround the train and get the tank car for the industry and drop it, then I still had the other track open for the lead into the industry on the front of the layout there.  I originally had that main track go all the way to the backdrop, but more I thought about it I didn't know if it needed to be that long or not, and I was going to model the drive into the LPG lot as the tracks being removed and terminated just shy of it. 

That being said, I was curious about Allen's ideas so I played with it a bit and this is what I came up with:


This has the train entering the branch prior to the the runaround. I only need one track into the LPG facility as it will be a small transfer place, so that saves me one turnout.  My main concern (and probably not all that important or maybe not even an issue) is when the engine pulls the cut of cars from the front industry, if there is more than a few coming in or going out the engine will be going through the backdrop to clear the points.  That's ok, as being the branch there is no other traffic, but once the train entered the branch I wanted it to be confined to that space until it left. 

One other question, re backing in: is the branch on any kind of uphill-grade getting to here?  If so, I would expect back-in moves to be problematic.

Once again - this is a great branch that will give you lots of fun.  I'm thinking I need something similar (the Arvin branch) in my new plan.

Cheers,
Gary

Just a very slight grade getting into the branch.  The local will actually run forward to the turnout to the branch, at which point it will back down the branch line.  I expect there will be a slight grade up as well from the end of the runaround to the first turnout of the paper mill, but again, it will be very slight, maybe about a 1/2" climb over that 5' or so, less than 1% grade. 

I think in cases where there is constant work at a site such as the paper plant there is usually a switcher bases there. The turn servicing the site swaps cars out of storage tracks that are then moved around the site by the based switcher. A 44 ton GE or VO1000 or some such would work well.

The more I think about this the more likely it is I do make a designated switcher for the mill.  Can't see it being used much for operation, but never know.  I suspect I will look at something along the lines of Kato's NW2, worn down and patched out.  The turn would drop cars off on one of the yard tracks, pick up the outbounds from the other, and the site switcher would then come onto the branch to pick the cars up?  Or would the yard tracks be on the paper company 'property'?

Thanks again,
Mike

[nscalemike]

Another option:



I switched the turnouts for the runaround and the LPG facility.  Now the runaround is closer to 40" long, and the spur is straighter.

[Bendtracker1]

Mike,
Personally it would not bother me if the locos disappear for a short amount of time while switching the front industry.  You'll be focusing on the cars and turnout and may not even notice where the locos are.
But if that gets under your skin, you could always make a simple rule that you are only allowed to pull a certain number of cars at a time, thus keeping the locos from entering the backdrop.

Instead of pulling one cut of say four cars, you would have to pull two cuts of two or, one cut of three cars and another cit of one car.

I think the best thing to do now is use the cannon theory!  Your close enough to a finished plan.  Pull the trigger and see if it works for you or not, if not, reposition the tracks and pull the trigger again.  Do this until it works for you.

One can plan, plan and plan some more, but until you actually put it to the test, you'll never know what might work the best.

I am going through this as we speak.  I laid out my El Dorado yard numerous times on paper and scratched my head until it hurt.  Finally I said, enough is enough and laid out the yard like I have it now. 

The other night we started testing the ops program and found out that the single A/D track, more often than not, will not be long enough to handle the locals that we planned and planned for.  So it's back to the drawing board.  Now I decided to install a second A/D track which will make two shorter A/D tracks.  From what we have played with so far, the two shorter tracks will allow me to double the train onto the second track, leaving me more than enough room when the locals reach their maximum of 15 car lengths.  I can now also see times when they might bring back more cars than they left with, say 17 cars.  So this will help immensely.

I agree with Gary, it looks like hours of fun will be had once the trains start rolling into to town! 

[nscalemike]

Ok all, I need some quick help!  Construction is progressing nicely on the branch line.  All of the benchwork is complete, the right side of the track is in, and currently laying out the rear and the left side.  This brings me to my problem:

Due to the height of the layout (not exactly flexable because of stuff underneath), the left rear corner where the ethanol plant is located has a bit of a reach.  I'm worried about people hitting the scenery on the front, not being able to reach cars to couple/uncouple, general maintance, etc.  I am already planning on putting in a few step stools around to make it easier to reach, but I think this is just too far back.

So . . . .  the responsible track laying part of me is telling me to ax it.  Do away with the industry and make it a corner of the city.  I'm sure I could fill the area with a couple of store fronts and look good.  The operating side of me is saying not so fast there.  Thats a big industry I'm taking out. 

I can think of three options:

Option 1, remove it all.
Option 2, remove the industry, leave a stub track to the wall with no turnouts or anything.  I can leave a string of cars and represent the industry "off layout."
Option 3, remove ethanol plant, put a short stub track to an industry immediately past the curved turnout leading to the abandoned plant (since that turnout is already installed).  Could put a 5-6 car warehouse in which would be much easier to reach. 

Thoughts from any of you experts? 

Thanks,
Mike

The general plan just to refresh the memory

[wazzou]

Mike

I think you should take out 6" or a foot of benchwork where the business district is so that the mainline is closer to the front edge of the layout and the ethanol plant is reachable.  You can always finagle a town between the main and lead to the plant or in the space that remains at the front although I never want to have to reach over town buildings and such to uncouple cars at an industry.

[nscalemike]

Mike

I think you should take out 6" or a foot of benchwork where the business district is so that the mainline is closer to the front edge of the layout and the ethanol plant is reachable.  You can always finagle a town between the main and lead to the plant or in the space that remains at the front although I never want to have to reach over town buildings and such to uncouple cars at an industry.

I will look at this option, but part of the reason the footprint of the benchwork is due to my workbench being underneath the branch line.  And, at this location, my spray booth is right there as well, so one can't get any closer anyhow.  But maybe you could lean over the workbench enough to reach it. 

[wazzou]

In that case, I'd just pull the plant off the wall and closer to the mainline and town so that you can reach the area.

[nscalemike]

Well, even without an update here, work has been progressing on the branch line.  I have about half of the track down, maybe a touch less.  I am pleased with the results so far.  Hopefully this weekend I will get an opportunity to maybe finish it.

I was playing around with the new Driod Bionic yesterday and thought I'd test out its camera abilities.  I shot this on my phone, uploaded it to Picasa, and was all ready to copy the link into my post when it was determined that I don't know how to copy and paste something like that on a phone yet!

So here is the photo, now attached by means of the trusty old desktop:


Local dropping of the first LPG tanker to the LP facility. 

More to follow soon!
Mike