Illinois Central/Canadian National in N scale

[GaryHinshaw]

Nice to see some updates.  The slow speeds on these two movies work very well.  How do you like the sound in person?

-gfh

[nscalemike]

Thanks all.

I know the updates have been scarce lately.  I read updates here daily and get out to the train room every day or two, but never have anything to post!  I'm stuck in this rut since my trackwork is nearly done of wanting to start scenery, but wanting to wait until the backdrop is painted, but can't paint the backdrop until it is rehung since it expanded and bowed on me, I need to install my valance and want to do that before I paint but I'm afraid of I won't be able to reach in all the way then to work of layout stuff. . . . . blah blah blah.  I keep telling myself it's all excuses and just do something!  So I did and I finished the BNSF loco!

Gary,  the sound is a MRC decoder in the SD40-2.  I also have a sound decoder in an Amtrak loco.  I am generally pleased with them so far.  Volume is good, maybe even slightly too loud, lots of horns to pick from along with bells and what not.  I wish they would include a listing of what horn is representative of what for those who can't identify the difference very easy like me but I just picked one that sounded decent.  Another thing on my project list is adjust the speed tables.  with the MRC as soon as it gets power the loco moves at a decent pace.  I want the first few clicks to get the engine going before the loco moves like on the prototypes.  That should help the realism.  Like any sound decoder, especially n scale, it's train noise from a mini speaker and I'm not rushing to convert every loco I own.  But, I do enjoy playing with them and kinda miss it when I'm running something else!

Mike

[nscalemike]

Well, I said pics would be coming for some time now and I finally took the camera out to the layout room tonight.  Here is my recently completed BNSF C40-8W patched out to CN:

Picking up a cut of cars at the elevator




And the other side while it was sitting in the yard:




I'm not sure how the 'N' got a little crooked on me but oh well, it happens I guess.  The prototypes are all repainted now I think.  Maybe this gets a new paint job some day too.  I didn't change the number on the light boards because the last one I saw come through Champaign still had BNSF's original numbers on the light boards as well. 

I airbrushed the model initially to fade the BNSF orange.  Then I airbrushed soot and dirt on the top, front, rear, and walkways.  Next, I masked and sprayed orange over the BNSF logos, added decals, then weathered with oil washes.  After a few days to dry sprayed everything with dullcoat.  I am pleased with how it turned out.  It actually looks a little cleaner in the pics then in person. 

Thanks for looking,
Mike

[nscalemike]

It's been since June 10 for the last post and what a summer it has been!  No train time at all.  Lots of golf under my belt, a new brick patio in the backyard, vacation, more golf, and mix in 40 hours of work a week and pretty much all my time was used.  The good news is yesterday, a cold Saturday in which I was stuck home sick, I was able to get back into the layout room and start prepping for the modeling season.  I finally got my spray booth vented outside correctly and it is all operational, moved some electrical wires to clean up the high voltage wire mess, and cleaned half the layout room, including throwing away bags of junk which will never be used. 

When the baseball/football games that were on tv gave me something worthwhile to watch I also twisted and saw dust glued my first three MC oak trees!  A little worried at first but I think they may come out ok!

Hopefully today after a bit of NFL time I can get the other side of the layout room cleaned and finish up the trees.  Once that is done I need to install my lighting for the layout!  I might just be back into the swing of things!

Mike

[M.C. Fujiwara]

Glad you're getting back in the swing of things (model rr, as well as golf)
The wire trees usually need 2-3 coats of sawdust/glue to completely cover: has a funkey habit of sliding down before dry 
I found the sawdust/glue mixture stays wet & usable in the container pretty much all day, so after 3-4 hours of letting the first coat dry I can apply the second / touch-ups from the same mix.
Looking forward to seeing your trees!

[GaryHinshaw]

Welcome back Mike.  I can't wait until my pike is ready for some MC oak trees. 

[nscalemike]

I debated starting a new thread with this but I decided to keep everything together.  I am tossing this out to the crowd to see what type of feedback I get.  While I am generally pleased with the layout design I have in place right now there is a few issues I am trying to overcome.  In doing so I've spent some time the last couple of weeks playing with Anyrail and working on some track plans.  This exercise has me starting to consider another rebuild.  As always there is advantages and disadvantages.  The working plan as it stand now is this:



You may recognize the main layout as a variation of MR's Bay Junction plan.  This plan has interested me since I first saw it a couple years ago.  One of their project layouts that left me really motivated.  I have no room for the 'junction' so I left that off and only using the yard and industries.  There is a junction still though, as a stub end branch line goes down the other wall.  Those of you who have followed along over the last few years know I am torn between modern mainline and branchline work.  I like them both and one of the things I've missed on this current layout is a true branch line. 

What caused me to start thinking again was the overall room space.  As noted before my aisles are currently only about 26" wide, with a pinch point of less than that in some areas.  While initially it was ok for me, I have since had a few people over and there is really no room for anyone besides 1.  This has opened up the center floor area, no duckunder to enter the room, the narrowest part is 36" and there is two openings to about 44".  Further, there is dedicated space in the bottom left corner for things in the room besides the layout.  This biggest issue is I loose the corner desk area, which currently is under the layout on the top left corner.  I think I could relocate my desk to under the layout right in the center with access to the staging area on either side of the desk. 

So what does this plan offer?  It still has continuous run from staging, thought the main town/yard and back to staging.  It has a modern feel to it and can handle the modern sized equipment.  It has a dedicated branch line with industries to service.  Plenty of switching opportunity.  I believe it has a fair balance of track to scenery.  One wide aisle rather than two small ones, which I would assume would make the overall room feel bigger, even with the three foot strip along the back wall being used for railroad space.  There is a slight grade on this too, to allow for the two industry tracks to go over the staging yard.

This is what I picture the layout doing.  Starting at 0" elevation in staging right under the elevated tracks. Staging goes up from there, almost like a bowl. The mainline goes left, around the turnback, climbing through a cut in the trees.  The yellow green color areas are farm fields, reinforcing the Illinois feel.  The line reaches about 2" elevation at the road and enters the town.  On the left is the yard office, engine track/lead, a grain and fertilizer complex.  As you move right, you have an industry, one door will take 2 coil cars and an gon while the second takes boxcars.  The road crossing would likely be an overpass.  Next, is the corn syrup plant.  A grade level road crossing then the blue is a depot, followed by one more crossing and back into staging, dropping down to the 0" elevation by the elevated tracks. 

The local will seek permission to enter the main, cross over to the passing track, and then back down the branch line.  The backing moving through town requires a caboose so the conductor can watch traffic and throw turnouts.  The first industry, I'm thinking plastics plant, will need to be passed.  You can't block the crossings any longer than necessary, so you take you train down near the creek, cut off everything but what gets dropped at the plastic plant, then go back and swap the cars out.  With that work done, you return to your train, use the siding for car sorting, and service the front industry, which will be a bit lower, and likely another tank car type place.  Finally, the last two industries include a warehouse along the back wall and a lumber yard in front. With you work complete, you can return to the yard.  Based on train length you may need to wait near the creek so not to block the road crossings again.  When dispatcher gives the ok to take the passing siding, you can hold there until its clear to back past the depot and pull into the yard. 

Is this a done deal to start over?  Not at this point.  But, I also can't say I am not considering it.  That being said, if I decide to start over, it will be in the immediate future, as in the next couple of weeks or less.  So, I wanted to throw this out and see what you all have to say.  Am I on to something? Should I stay the course with what I have? Should I do something completly different? 

Thanks for your thoughts,
Mike

[mcjaco]

Could you bend the left end of the main layout, so that you still had a 36" aisle between in and the branch, but also allowed you to get gid of a duck under to get to staging, by making it a peninsula?

[packers#1]

I've gotta say, I also loved the Williams Bay build; it centered on a lot of the stuff I like; big trains, running trains, switching some industries. Your layout plan looks a lot like something I'd like; I say go for it, because you'll have more room and still keep some of the same feel of the current layout you're building, with a town as the main focus, and train running, and some extra switching. I'm sure the  panel has suggestions, but I'll add my vote to the rebuild

[MichaelWinicki]

What caused me to start thinking again was the overall room space.  As noted before my aisles are currently only about 26" wide, with a pinch point of less than that in some areas.  While initially it was ok for me, I have since had a few people over and there is really no room for anyone besides 1.  This has opened up the center floor area, no duckunder to enter the room, the narrowest part is 36" and there is two openings to about 44".  Further, there is dedicated space in the bottom left corner for things in the room besides the layout.  This biggest issue is I loose the corner desk area, which currently is under the layout on the top left corner.  I think I could relocate my desk to under the layout right in the center with access to the staging area on either side of the desk. 

No question you and your visitors will be much happier with a minimum of a 36" wide aisle... And no duck-under is a big win in my book.

Hey I can understand the desire to want to cram more track/more operations in an area but duck-unders and narrow aisles just kill the fun.

[nscalemike]

Matt,  I'm not sure I completely understand what you mean but I think you are talking about having an opening to walk around to the rear staging area.  I'm sure I could cut the length down but swinging out into the room more won't be possible.  The door is next to the end of the branch line and that would extremely limit the room near the door.

The staging duckunder doesn't bother me as much as a room door duckunder.  You would only need to access staging for a specific purpose, otherwise, it is basically duckunder free.  However, I am a bit concerned with the 18" of people room for staging.  Is this acceptable in this application?  I see it occupied by one person at a time, usually me, for construction, cleaning, and to fix the occasional mistake.  To make it bigger would also increase the curve radius, but would start to eat away at the front aisle space.  I don't want to do that.

My other thoughts have been about lighting.  Currently there is a valance over the layout with lighting fixed to it.  The branch line won't change but the main layout will take some creativity to get something working.  Leaving the valance off is one option, but the room doesn't have very good general lighting so it will be darker then before.

That being said, I was in the train room earlier tonight and still torn on what I want to do.  One part of me says this is a significant improvement as far as track plan operations and room comfort compared to what I have, but another part tells me if I stay organized and clean the current layout is also very acceptable just some tight spaces.  I suppose I am also concerned about taking the time and expense of ripping out what I have, thinking the 'new' design will give more space but then find out down the road when it is again to late it did not.  What I am doing is basically taking my 7.5' wide room and turing it into a 5.5' wide room. 

Please help!

Mike

[Scottl]

Any layout with CN as a theme can't be bad.   I'm not sure how I missed it, but I love the BNSF patch unit- I did one of those too.

Having said that, I can't help but find the previous layout design around the walls to be more attractive to me.  It has a wide range of switching and good yard possibilities.  The yard peninsula really eats up space for people, and the duckunder is no doubt an issue at some level, but these might be compromises worth living with.  I understand the interest in a branch line, but I find the switching opportunities on the previous layout plan to be quite varied and the mainline run substantially longer.  Perhaps if you find a way to put more of the storage along the walls and eliminate the peninsula, you will find the space for people improved.  Just a thought.

I am in the process myself of building a revised version of my layout with a duckunder-pass through.  I had always assumed these would be a pain, especially since I am very tall, but found it can be quite workable when I visited Mark Dance's C&W last year.  What it does is give you a lot more mileage in the same space.  Also, if the benchwork is high, this minimizes the issue.

My chief concern with your new concept is the access for the staging yard.  While 18" might be adequate for you to get up in there, it does seem like a tight spot to work and getting in there is very difficult, I would think.  Given the number of turnouts in there and the storage capacity, I can see you needing access more than infrequently.   I understand how making more space for the operator back there is a no-go, but I do think this something to think about as you contemplate your next move.  All just my opinion, do as you wish!

[MichaelWinicki]

Scott makes a good point about duck-unders... Yeah if they're up high enough that alleviates some of the issue.  Maybe not totally but some– maybe in this case enough to live with.

I agree with him that the existing layout is more interesting from an operating perspective. 

And yeah the 18"wide staging yard aisle looks problematic.

The elephant in the room when it comes to the existing layout is the staging yard smack dab in the middle of the room... Why not redo things so the staging is below one of the existing sections of layout (along the wall).  You may not even need a helix if it's only a few inches... just use a no-lex.

[nscalemike]

The elephant in the room when it comes to the existing layout is the staging yard smack dab in the middle of the room... Why not redo things so the staging is below one of the existing sections of layout (along the wall).  You may not even need a helix if it's only a few inches... just use a no-lex.

Yes,  It is this.  I like the operation of the current layout, ran some last night and other than the cleaning it needs it runs well.  It's this staging issue.  Suggestions on how to rework this to remove the center staging?  My one thought was to remove the grain complex on the left wall and use that wall as staging, either stub staging for each direction or through staging.  Currently my staging is made up of 9 tracks, about 7' long.

[Scottl]

Annex space in an adjacent room and cut a hole in the wall  .