The Transcontinental PRR

[eric220]

This area is a city and small suburb. Horseshoe Curve is going to be right below, so the scenery up here is going to be more simple. On much of the rest of the layout, the construction is going to be cookie-cutter for just that reason. As for foam, I've tried it, and I'm not a fan. Actually, what you're seeing is likely the last of the straight plywood construction on the upper level.

[eric220]

So, question.  In the next expansion east, the mainline is going to swing out to make room for the loop around the end of the peninsula.  This leaves a pretty big void in the scenery (as a reminder, the grid is 24"):



This area begs for an industry of some kind. It will be set in the San Francisco Bay Area.  Any thoughts?

[John]

warehouses .. hills,

[nscalemike]

This is looking real good!  I like the nice long lines and large curves.  I will second you absolutely need to superelevate your curves.  Very easy with tge masking tape method, takes almost no extra time, one roll of tape will probably do your whole layout and it looks great!  I know this is the second level but i can already imagine finished scenery and standing a bit back from the layout and watching those trains ease into to superelevated curve.  Do all the curves on the entire main line!!!

A couple questions, do you have a complete trackplan somewhere?  I tried looking through the older posts and your website but didnt see any.  Also, on your website (which looks very professional) your system map has a blue line running through Illinois, what is that representing for you?  My CN line is going to be set in the same general area.

Keep up the great work!

Mike

[eric220]

Looks like I need to learn superevelvating in a hurry.

Back to my design question, I'm settling in on one of two possibilities.  First is the C&H sugar refinery in Crockett, CA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_and_Hawaiian_Sugar_Company
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=38.056573,-122.219414&hl=en&ll=38.056244,-122.217815&spn=0.007941,0.009098&num=1&t=h&vpsrc=0&z=17

There are three major problems.  One, it's in the wrong place.  The SN didn't go anywhere near Crockett, so my PRR wouldn't either.  That's easy enough to fix by postulating that the factory was established further up the Sacramento River in Bay Point or Pittsburg.  The second is that this is one ridiculously complex facility.  I'm guessing that most of it would have to be scratched, and I'm just not sure that I'm up to it.  Finally, this factory produces refined cane sugar products.  I'm not really sure where else on the layout to send the cargo.

The other possibility would be a small freelanced port, loosely based on Port Chicago.  My idea here would be that a small town along the Sacramento River decided to build a small port and bill themselves as a lower cost alternative to the Port of Oakland or San Francisco.  One major benefit of building such a port in Bay Point of Pittsburg would be that in that area the SN, SP, and ATSF right of ways were (are) practically on top of each other.  They literally looked like a three-track mainline.  That means that the port would have access to all three railroads.  Operationally, that also means that the port would be an interchange point.  Also, with the port being so small, including a freight house to move between rail and truck would be a logical way to diversify and stabilize income.  Finally, if the port were located far enough up river, the spot where the SN (PRR) mainline broke off from the SP and ATSF and crossed the river looks suspiciously similar to my track plan.  The main dropped down into a trench (which is now flooded), swung out to the right, then cut back to the left, ducking under the other two railroads.  You can actually still see where the old SN mainline and carfloats were.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=38.031749,-121.934402&hl=en&ll=38.031749,-121.932364&spn=0.007944,0.009098&sll=38.031563,-121.934788&sspn=0.007944,0.013186&vpsrc=0&t=h&z=17

That means that I could use a fill and a rail bridge to hide the point where the main disappears into the backdrop.

Thoughts?

[wm3798]

Eric,
I think you're going to run into some serious snags operationally on your proposed coast to coast theme.  First, to make any sense at all, you'd have to really have staging yards at several points along the way at which you would have to represent pick ups and set outs which are bound to happen at some point in the journey.

Even blocks of double stacks and other unit type traffic will need to be dropped off at some point along the way.  The simple fact is that a consist heading from Enola to Portola would be broken down and re-assembled multiple times along the way.  You'd have to figure out a way to deal with that in order to maintain even a modicum of plausibility in your operating scheme.

Before you get teats deep in something that becomes unwieldy, I suggest you rethink your overall concept.  Maybe a freelance division of the PRR in the present day, and you can base some of your industries on the stuff that's out there that's not as location specific.  Obviously, the original concept bends plenty of light to begin with so bending a little more to go coast to coast may not be that much more of a stretch, but as you move into any kind of operations, you're going to realize you've got ten pounds of railroad and a five pound bag...

F'rinstance.  Let's say you leave Altoona with a train bound for the coast.  Even if you only account for major interchange points, say, Chicago, Omaha and Denver, you could potentially turnover the entire train into a new consist along the way.  There might be a few through cars, but odds are your traffic department has arranged for blocks to be dropped and picked up along the way.  That said, if there's a block of cars to get cut off at Chicago, and another block to be picked up, how do you manage that without some sort of yard?  Even passenger trains will present challenges with sleepers, express cars and diners getting cut in and out.

I'm only representing about 120 miles of railroad, and sometimes I think my scheme is overwhelming... 

Or perhaps I'm over-thinking it, and your objective is to run cool PRR consists through a variety of scenery... 

Lee

[eric220]

Or perhaps I'm over-thinking it, and your objective is to run cool PRR consists through a variety of scenery... 

Yup.   

I want to accomplish two basic goals with this layout:  One, bring my vision of a transcontinental PRR to life by representing PA, CO, and CA.  Two, have a layout that is fun to operate and can keep several operators busy.  My solution to bring the two together is that the operations will be independent of geographic locations represented.

[cv_acr]

So, question.  In the next expansion east, the mainline is going to swing out to make room for the loop around the end of the peninsula.  This leaves a pretty big void in the scenery (as a reminder, the grid is 24"):



This area begs for an industry of some kind. It will be set in the San Francisco Bay Area.  Any thoughts?

I don't think it does. Railways consist of a lot of open areas between locations, which is seldom truely modeled. The model railroad tendency is to find some industry to shove into every blank spot.

Open scenery (which could be just scenery, a residential area, or non-rail-served businesses) would be nicely appropriate here.

See Ed K's doughnut layout for proper application of modelling "nothing".

My club's layout will also feature vast stretches of "nothing" between major locations. And many minor locations are nothing more than passing sidings.

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't think it does. Railways consist of a lot of open areas between locations, which is seldom truely modeled. The model railroad tendency is to find some industry to shove into every blank spot.

Open scenery (which could be just scenery, a residential area, or non-rail-served businesses) would be nicely appropriate here.

See Ed K's doughnut layout for proper application of modelling "nothing".

My club's layout will also feature vast stretches of "nothing" between major locations. And many minor locations are nothing more than passing sidings.

Well stated.

[DKS]

I don't think it does. Railways consist of a lot of open areas between locations, which is seldom truely modeled. The model railroad tendency is to find some industry to shove into every blank spot.

Open scenery (which could be just scenery, a residential area, or non-rail-served businesses) would be nicely appropriate here.

See Ed K's doughnut layout for proper application of modelling "nothing".

My club's layout will also feature vast stretches of "nothing" between major locations. And many minor locations are nothing more than passing sidings.

+1

How about San Francisco Bay Area's equivalent of Horseshoe Curve? (Horseshoe Crab Curve?) Could model a little stretch of a Venice-like beach scene, just for kicks.

[eric220]

Despite all the +1's, I still think this area still needs an industry.  Without it, there are no industries at all in the California section of the layout.  There's River City, but it only has a small yard, with no industries served by rail.  The 25 or so feet between River City and Walnut Hill will be a long stretch of "nothing".  Walnut Hill will be a small suburban town of around 2,000, so it will be represented by a couple of streets and houses, and no industries or sidings.  Also, DKS, the right side of the peninsula is no longer Bay Area.  It's the Snake River Valley in Colorado.  That entire side of the peninsula and back wall will be 10-15 feet of "nothing".  At/after the next curve will be a few feet of a resort town, then about 10-15 feet of "nothing" as the line passes over the continental divide.  Then the line passes through Idaho Springs, a town of 1,500 with a team track and a stamp mill.  The only other thing on the upper level is the Coors Brewery on the top level of the helix.

I'm pretty comfortable that I can add this industry without crowding.

[wm3798]

[it's starting already...]

[eric220]

Not sure I quite get what's starting, but 

I feel like the upper level is a little short on work for the local.  Without the proposed CA industry, there's the team track at the resort, the team track at Idaho Springs, the stamp mill, and the brewery (which prototypically should have its own shifter).  I think that adding another industry would not only make the local job more interesting, but gives more possibility for destinations/sources for other industries on the layout.

[John]

Eric .. I get what you are doing .. My M&O stretches from Chicago to Florida to Philly ...   you don't have to model all of it... but like you, I am trying to fit some stuff in that I want to see..  Tygart Jct - the big bridge, a steel mill, an auto plant, etc ..  do whats right for you

[Dave V]

Or perhaps I'm over-thinking it, and your objective is to run cool PRR consists through a variety of scenery... 

You mean there's something else besides that?