Atlas March Announcements

[Brakie]

Still not getting how people don't understand that the dollar has been getting weaker against the Yuan ... and that this is driving the cost of anything made in China .... yep, you guessed it - up!

The cost of a Yuan has gone up 24% since 2006.

Even at that the manufacturers should or better realize there is a limit on what modelers are willing to pay.

Now,exactly how many cars and locomotive shells can they get out of a ton of material?

Only the manufacturers knows and they will never tell-unless you are buying the company.

[SkipGear]

Still not getting how people don't understand that the dollar has been getting weaker against the Yuan ... and that this is driving the cost of anything made in China .... yep, you guessed it - up!

The cost of a Yuan has gone up 24% since 2006.

Not all the problems are monetary. I agree, the dollar is not helping things but, if you can't get a product produced, you can't sell it and make money. If Atlas can't run the through the large volume, they can't get the "volume discount". Back to a horrible reference to the auto industry....Ferrari and Ford both make money but they do it with a different plan in mind. Ferrari does it by selling fewer, more expensive cars where Ford sell mass qantities of cheaper cars. Both are viable marketing plans if you can pull it off.

Have you noticed how Walthers and Athearn have really stepped up the announcements in all scales recently. Even Walthers has had at least one new N scale announcement in each of the past 5 months which is out of character for them. Walthers has kept at least 5-10 new announcements coming each month. It used to be maybe 20 every 6 months.  I think Bachmann, Athearn and Walthers have pretty much sucked up all the production capacity and left Atlas hung out to dry. It boils down to them neededing to find a new source for production.

As a positive note to all this, maybe that is why we saw nothing announced this month. Who know's, maybe behind the curtain, there is a deal pending and it was more important than announcing new product. I wonder if Jason at Rapido has his production facility ready to run at full speed yet? He was talking about expanding operations to manufacture for others if I remember correctly, and Rapido has been fairly quiet recently.

[MichaelWinicki]

Even at that the manufacturers should or better realize there is a limit on what modelers are willing to pay.

There is no official "number" that represents the limit to what modelers will pay.

It's all over the board... And that number can vary not just from modeler to modeler but one modeler can have various "I won't spend more than $$" from product to product run depending upon many variables.

All you really believe is that as prices go up, some amount of demand will decrease, however you can't be sure what the amount of decrease is.

[bbussey]

Being in the minority does not make me wrong.  There are always going to be more people lacking intelligence than those who have it, so I am fine being in the minority.  The auto analogy is not flawed and if you don't understand it I am not going to take the time to educate you on it.  I have to wonder what exactly makes you the expert and final ruling on any issue anyway?  You have no clue exactly what my knowledge is on marketing and production.  Also my comments have been directed to one company and one product line within that company.  I don't know why my thoughts and opinions get you so upset and fired up but you are really becoming amusing.  You can't argue with the fact that Kato brings to market new products with new tooling at a price that is more competitive than Atlas.  By your line of reasoning companies never go out of business, never have to hire people from the outside to improve/save them, and never make the wrong decision or make a mistake.  You might want to have your water checked.

Mighty big talk from someone who's never worked in the model railroading manufacturing industry and has repeatedly shown you know nothing about how it works.  You make one valid observation regarding expertise however - there is no point in continuing this debate with you, as we have no common point of relevance from which to start since you have zero model railroad manufacturing experience.  After you get a few decades of experience under your belt, we can debate further which model railroading marketing models work and which don't.

[SkipGear]

Even at that the manufacturers should or better realize there is a limit on what modelers are willing to pay.

Now,exactly how many cars and locomotive shells can they get out of a ton of material?

Only the manufacturers knows and they will never tell-unless you are buying the company.

What part of this don't you understand? Should the manufactures keep their retail prices flat, even though their costs are skyrocketing? It takes a certain amount of profit to stay in business. I'm very confident that they realize that increasing prices are going to lead to lower sales numbers and some of that price increase is built in to help cover that. If you can't sell as many units, make more profit on the ones you do sell to cover the difference and stay solvent. All that matters is the bottom line and there are still many, many people out there that will buy the loco they want, no mater what the cost. Right now, the manufactures are relying on those customers to keep them going till things settle in.

No one is forcing you to buy any loco. If it is out of your price range, then don't buy it. If it is something you really want, then buy one, not 4-5 of them. How many diesel consist have 4 of the exact same loco in them anyhow? There is a lot of brass I would like to have but I can't afford it so I pass. Life goes on, I survive and pay my bills. There are still plenty of less expensive options out there for someone starting out. The hobby is not hurting. The MR sales in our shop have been growing for the past 5 years.

This all makes my decision to model steam so much more pleasant...one, maybe two new loco releases a year are much easier to budget for, I don't need to worry about double heading, and Atlas transition era cars keep coming and are not jumping in price as fast as diesel locos.

[Mark5]

Not all the problems are monetary. I agree, the dollar is not helping things but, if you can't get a product produced, you can't sell it and make money. If Atlas can't run the through the large volume, they can't get the "volume discount".

Excellent point. My point was simply that all other things being equal (and they aren't), the exchange rate is one single factor driving costs of "made in China" up.

[Brakie]

What part of this don't you understand? Should the manufactures keep their retail prices flat, even though their costs are skyrocketing? It takes a certain amount of profit to stay in business. I'm very confident that they realize that increasing prices are going to lead to lower sales numbers and some of that price increase is built in to help cover that. If you can't sell as many units, make more profit on the ones you do sell to cover the difference and stay solvent. All that matters is the bottom line and there are still many, many people out there that will buy the loco they want, no mater what the cost. Right now, the manufactures are relying on those customers to keep them going till things settle in.

No one is forcing you to buy any loco. If it is out of your price range, then don't buy it. If it is something you really want, then buy one, not 4-5 of them. How many diesel consist have 4 of the exact same loco in them anyhow? There is a lot of brass I would like to have but I can't afford it so I pass. Life goes on, I survive and pay my bills. There are still plenty of less expensive options out there for someone starting out. The hobby is not hurting. The MR sales in our shop have been growing for the past 5 years.

This all makes my decision to model steam so much more pleasant...one, maybe two new loco releases a year are much easier to budget for, I don't need to worry about double heading, and Atlas transition era cars keep coming and are not jumping in price as fast as diesel locos.

Tony,What part don't you understand about the question?
A ton of material will produce a lot of shells and car bodies driving down some of the per unit cost.

As far as locomotive consist I see you have noticed very little..

Have you not seen photos of 3 or 4 GP9 or 3 or 4 RS3 consisted together? 2 or 3 SD70s?

No,there is no way I will defend the pricing Atlas or Walthers uses for models 10-15 years old with new paint or numbers..

Justify all you want and until the cows come home but,don't think everybody going to believe it for one second.

There's gotta be a price ceiling or they face losing sales.

[CBQ Fan]

Mighty big talk from someone who's never worked in the model railroading manufacturing industry and has repeatedly shown you know nothing about how it works.  You make one valid observation regarding expertise however - there is no point in continuing this debate with you, as we have no common point of relevance from which to start since you have zero model railroad manufacturing experience.  After you get a few decades of experience under your belt, we can debate further which model railroading marketing models work and which don't.

This just proves how uneducated you are about my resume.  You know nothing about me and you are completely wrong.  Your ignorance in the matter is not worth waiting a few decades to tell you that you are still wrong.  You know what they say about "assume" don't you.  Please don't assume anything about me and please leave me out of your equation.  When your main line of production ownes your major compitition you are are going to be left holding the short stick at some point.  But since you know everything this should not be news to you.

[bbussey]

Tony,What part don't you understand about the question?
A ton of material will produce a lot of shells and car bodies driving down some of the per unit cost...

Mind-boggling.

That doesn't work.  The excess product ties up capital and warehouse space because it won't sell in a timely manner, preventing you from producing different products.

This is EXACTLY the model that was followed for decades prior to the mid 1980s.  Then the manufacturing/marketing strategy had to change because it wasn't sustainable, and the manufacturers adapted.

Tony articulated quite well the current state of the industry.  Again, if the current strategy is not sustainable, the companies will adapt.

[bbussey]

This just proves how uneducated you are about my resume.  You know nothing about me and you are completely wrong.  Your ignorance in the matter is not worth waiting a few decades to tell you that you are still wrong.  You know what they say about "assume" don't you.  Please don't assume anything about me and please leave me out of your equation.  When your main line of production ownes your major compitition you are are going to be left holding the short stick at some point.  But since you know everything this should not be news to you.

You're right, I know nothing about you nor do I wish to explore it, since I don't want you have have an aneurysm over how companies manufacture their toy trains.  I know one thing though - you'll continue to buy Burlington motive power even while you bitch about the cost because it's your road.  And that's the point.

And you would think, if you work or have worked in the model railroading industry as you imply, that you would get a courtesy response from Atlas on your pricing queries.  You would think.

[Ian MacMillan]

I like turtles...

I think we are looking too deep into this, its really kinda simple...and with that we take a break.

[John]

All - Please refrain from getting personal here .. topic locked