Lighweight Layout Construction for Ed

[Sokramiketes]

Ed, why did you use metal brackets when you could have used foam?


Recent upload to Trainboard.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Actually, I bet that's not as crazy as you overbuilders think.

Seriously, it's not like we're building furniture, we're building things for light models to run on.

The only potential issues I see are alignment ones, and when it comes to that, you just have to be careful.

[wazzou]

I guess you'd have to avoid the heavy weights put on foam layers stacked with Liquid Nails adhesive. 

[Dave V]

The only potential issues I see are alignment ones, and when it comes to that, you just have to be careful.

That's what she said.

[Dave Schneider]

That's what she said.

There might also be an "issue" with how long you can keep it up....the shelves I mean.

Best wishes, Dave

[Bob Bufkin]

What next, paper mache?  Be afraid if i sneezed, the damn thing would fall.

[lashedup]

Actually, I bet that's not as crazy as you overbuilders think.

Seriously, it's not like we're building furniture, we're building things for light models to run on.

The only potential issues I see are alignment ones, and when it comes to that, you just have to be careful.

Well that and leaning on it at all might bring it all down including expensive rolling stock and locos.

I agree that we can all go lighter weight than what we've probably seen and built before, but there is a practical limit when it comes to the ability to at least hold up to some basic abuse, bumps and general use.

[conrail98]

I was thinking the same thing. You'd almost have to tack everything down instead of applying something heavy down on top of the cork or track or whatever you might be gluing or using adhesive for,

Phil

[wm3798]

Maybe if you're building a non-operating diorama.  Hell, on mine, the weight of the wires and switch machines alone would bring that down.

Why does an installed (as in not portable) layout have to be lightweight at all?  You're not going to be carrying it anywhere.  Maybe mine is way overbuilt (I don't think so, I don't have anything bigger than a 1x3 anywhere in the mix) but I know that I can lean on the front edge when I'm reaching for something in the interior, I know I can staple up the wires, I know that my switch machines are solidly installed to the same base that the track is solidly attached to...

In some circumstances, shelf brackets with a reasonable capacity and a narrow hollow core door would certainly do the trick.  Yes, it would be heavier than foam, but I also know I can sit my beer on the edge of it while I'm working on the track.

Frankly, if you're after a "minimalist" layout, I'd stick to the scenic treatment, and know that the base on which it stands is reasonably solid.  If you want an existentialist layout, then sit in a darkened room and just brood about it, this way your hands don't get dirty.

Albert Camus

[tom mann]

What was that interior design show called where the host would hot glue everything?

[tom mann]

This:

http://www.christopherlowell.com/design/demos/demo.php?id=81

[sirenwerks]

Ed,

You're ignoring the fire retardant and chemical resistant properties of wood. Jeez, one good spray of Aquanet and your layout's structurally toasted. And then there's the problems associated with an overheating wire or two. As a substructure, I think foam is great, but as the primary structural element I think you're, excuse the pun, playing with fire.

[Hyperion]

I doubt anyone here gives much thought to the "weight" of what they're building compressing the foam underneath most of it; and if you're not heavy enough to compress foam, you're not about to break that stuff either.

Unless you're building mountains out of actual rock or something or have some crazy plaster fetish, the cumulative weight of a layout on a 12"x36" section won't be more than a handful of pounds.  Even exceedingly generous we could say it's 20lbs -- that's only 10lbs per 'bracket'.  Spread over that much surface area, about 12 square inches (if it's 2" thick and extends 6" into the layout), it will take many tens of pounds to deflect that bracket in any way.  The butt of the palm of my hand is much smaller, putting much more force on a single point, and I can press extremely hard on the edge of 2" foam and barely deflect it at all.  I just went out to the garage and put a 27lb pail of litter on a sideways-turned piece of 2" foam with no deflection in the foam at all -- and that's WAY more weight than it would ever see in reality.

Foam is really only a problem when we're talking about small thing -- like fingers or hips (of some people) or other protrusions.  But provided you've got a side fascia, there's no more exposure to the foam than any other layout.  The back edge might be a problem if you slammed the front really hard, but you can always put a thin fascia there too to spread out any bumps from the outside that pushes the foam hard against the wall.

I have absolutely no doubt that all 220lbs of me could sit on the above pictured foam layout where the 2 sections come together (so I'd have 2 'brackets' under me) without any problem with the foam at all outside of surface indentions which would be the same problem if I had foam-topped some plywood.  The only weakness is the strength of the glue holding the foam to the wall.  And with some of that stuff having sheer strengths in the several-hundred pound range, that wouldn't be a problem either.

[Dave V]

Ed and I will always disagree on this point, and that's fine.  Maybe it's because I'm a physicist by training or a warrior by profession, but I'm the kind of guy who figures if 1 of something meets the minimum need, 10 is better, and 100 is about right.  Disproportionate force and mass are principles of warfare and, in my mind, benchwork.  Whenever the Juniata Division finds its permanent home it will find new supportive benchwork that will also be rated to withstand a nuclear blast wave with nominal 75 kPa static overpressure.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Try PVC piping as your frame.

1. PVC piping can my cut to proper lengths with a miter saw.
2. Even a full room sized layout benchwork can be assembled in hours.
3. Assembly needs no specialized tools: miter saw, level, measuring tape and PVC glue is all that is needed.
4. Lots of specialized fittings are available for 90*, 45* angles, T connectors, elbows etc.
5. PVC can carry wires, bus cables etc, greatly reducing clutter.
6. Mounting to metal shelf supports requires only a few screws.
7. A 12' by 4' shelf layout 24" deep weighs less than 20 pounds WITH SCENERY!
8. Glues to foamboard easilly with Liquid Nails for Foam Projects.
9. Can support over 150 ponds of weight (when I fell on it).