Horseshoe Curve

[wm3798]

Puff balls to the rear, please!

I think one of the problems with JD's, is the size of the clumps.  They're scaled to look like the trees painted on the back drop.  They should be larger being in the foreground, and I agree with Ed, they need some trunks, even if they're smallish to maintain the illusion of height and distance.

Also, the unfinished paper rocks are killing the whole effect (much like the giant hole in the scene above!).  Therefore, I'm hesitant to pass judgment without seeing the work closer to completion.
Lee

[eric220]

Not to be dense, and heaven forbid I post on topic, but will using those wide curves leave enough space for scenery?  I know you eastern guys love your vertical puffball walls, but it's not fooling anyone.  I think it's just something you all agreed to accept and never talk about again.


Jason

You have a point. Assuming it's centered, I've only got 3.5 inches on each side at the closest clearance. There's about five inches at the top, and there's lots of room in the corners. I have to admit that I've never actually been to the Curve (except riding over it once). Based on photos that I've seen, it looks like there are some pretty sheer cliffs in the areas of close clearance on my model. I'll just ask the question, because I can always shrink the geometry a little. How much room should I leave for scenery? Do you think that I could get away with cuts tucked into the 3.5 inches that I have on each side?

[wcfn100]

I'll just ask the question, because I can always shrink the geometry a little. How much room should I leave for scenery? Do you think that I could get away with cuts tucked into the 3.5 inches that I have on each side?

If it were me, I would try and sketch out the profile of the hills where they would meet the backdrop.  It looks like it's fairly undulated.  Then use some styroform (or something) to approximate how steep you think the the hills should be.  You should also keep aware of the track and roadbed profile on the backside.  I know the vegitation is right on top of the tracks there, but it's still a couple inches back in N scale.


Jason

[lashedup]

If it were me, I would try and sketch out the profile of the hills where they would meet the backdrop.  It looks like it's fairly undulated.  Then use some styroform (or something) to approximate how steep you think the the hills should be.  You should also keep aware of the track and roadbed profile on the backside.  I know the vegitation is right on top of the tracks there, but it's still a couple inches back in N scale.


Jason

I think it was mentioned that the curve can almost be prototypical size with the room he has? So if he compresses it just slightly, I would actually look to see how difficult it would be to build the scenery to proper prototype size as well. Shouldn't be too difficult to get USGS information and figure out the proper scale heights and placement of the actual scenery.

Getting too hung up on the size of the curve itself won't matter if the scenery can't bring the whole scene together in a way that captures the drama of it. I'm with Ed that this is a key scene and needs to be as perfect as possible. If you have to compress the track a little bit to gain more scenery, then make that compromise as the the scene will look better with a full compliment of scenery to go with it.

- jamie

[eric220]

I think it was mentioned that the curve can almost be prototypical size with the room he has? So if he compresses it just slightly, I would actually look to see how difficult it would be to build the scenery to proper prototype size as well. Shouldn't be too difficult to get USGS information and figure out the proper scale heights and placement of the actual scenery.

Getting too hung up on the size of the curve itself won't matter if the scenery can't bring the whole scene together in a way that captures the drama of it. I'm with Ed that this is a key scene and needs to be as perfect as possible. If you have to compress the track a little bit to gain more scenery, then make that compromise as the the scene will look better with a full compliment of scenery to go with it.

- jamie

Acording to Google Maps, the hillside next to the track is pretty steep, which I would expect from a cut.  I've got 24 vertical inches to the railhead on the upper deck (on the left at the top of the grade), which is another consideration.  The upper deck is a shelf in that area, so the Curve itself will be out from underneath it.

[TrainCat2]

[MichaelWinicki]

Great video's Traincat!

I've been down there myself.

The hillsides are shear in some spots... and not so much in others.  

The backdrop will be a big part of this.   If you have scenery ending at a blue sky backdrop, it won't look right.

[wazzou]

For us non fans, what is the reason for that curve to begin with?  Was there big elevation to gain?  It looks as though from that aerial that Bob posted, the Pennsy could just cut right across the gorge there.

[eric220]

That Thomas Edison video was awesome!

The backdrop will be a big part of this.   If you have scenery ending at a blue sky backdrop, it won't look right.

I seem to remember that there were threats of going out to the Curve on Sunday after the Conrail BBQ. Hopefully, we'll wind up doing that, then I can take some high-res photos of the ridgeline to use as backdrops. If we don't make it out there, I may have to try and bribe someone to get out there and get the photos for me.

[eric220]

For us non fans, what is the reason for that curve to begin with?  Was there big elevation to gain?  It looks as though from that aerial that Bob posted, the Pennsy could just cut right across the gorge there.

Elevation gain was exactly the reason. The Curve has a grade of about 1.7%.

[wazzou]

What is the elevation difference in feet on one side of the gorge as compared to the other?

[Chris333]

You have to understand that back in 1850 they were more concerned with where a$$hats might gather than how steep the grade was.

[Bob Bufkin]

Loving that 1900 version.  Lots of people forget that there were several coal branches off the curve and you can see them there.  Those signals are unique also.  Don't think I've ever seen them before.

[eric220]

What is the elevation difference in feet on one side of the gorge as compared to the other?

Looks like 122 feet.

[Puddington]

"Hey Ethel; get the popcorn................."

Watching PRR/PC/CR/eastern railfans discuss how to model Horseshoe curve could cause HBO to film a ten disc mini series.....you guys rock............... ;D

Love and kisses........ The Western Modelers