3 poles for all!

[Brakie]

In my best Richard Nixon voice.

Let me make this perfectly clear.

In the great battle of 3 vs.5 pole motors I have no givens or druthers as long as the locomotive has a smooth slow speed.

In other words if it works so?

Actually I base my  N Scale standards on my HO standards as far as locomotive performance and been quite successful without knowing if the locomotive has a 3 or 5 pole motor since I look at performance then applied details.That how the FVM Gevo failed the test-good runner wrong headlight location for NS..The Bachmann GP7 failed as well not because of the 3 pole motor but,the missing grab irons.

As far as "magic throttles" I don't believe in them no more then I believe "DCC is the cure all locomotive problems".

I been in this hobby 59 years without the need to know or be concern about how many poles a motor has..I bought a few pigs like that old Model Power C420 that shake,rattled and rolled its way down the track and like that old Atlas (Roco) GP9 that died in less then a year while its 3 mates rolled on and on and on--..

[victor miranda]

ok I get that you are bragging you don't pay attention to the details.

it don't matter to you how smooth and slow happens.  got it.

I have some good news for you.
I do pay attention to those details.
smooth and slow in an N-scale is no accident.

to get it to happen requires a lot of attention to
the details you are ignoring.

sadly, all you have managed to tell me is that you can't see
the difference from a coggy loco and a smooth loco.

and in trying to find some good here
I will tell you I find it funny that you are trying to tell some one who can see the difference
that is makes no difference.

is ok, I'll let you enjoy the benefits of my efforts just the same.

victor

[DKS]

is ok, I'll let you enjoy the benefits of my efforts just the same.

 :

[victor miranda]

:

believe me. my ego is a LOT bigger on-line.
 
hohohohohoho

[Brakie]

Victor,I do care and as usual you completely missed the point.
 
My MP15DC has a 3 pole motor and its a smooth runner with excellent switching speed-no clogging..So a modern 3 pole motor can and does work..

Why all the wind blowing?

Again read and understand If a 3 pole motor works that's fine by me.

Now should a locomotive have a crappy cheap 3 pole motor I will not buy it.

However,my decision will be based on my knowledge and not what I read on some forum..

I survived 50 years without forums and the worry over how many poles a  motor has.If I shut down my computer forever,I'll still get along just fine trusting my instincts..

[Mark5]

I've seen the bmann and kato 3 polers cog.

I have not yet witnessed the wonder in the MP15.

Mark

[victor miranda]

I missed the point....

yep ok I missed it.

and to go on to other missed points...

NandW, the atlas mp-15 cogs.
hohohohohhahahahahah
If you can get it to do about 3 to 4 smph.

At first I thought my test track was dirty.

compared to a steamer, it is damn good.
compared to the rs1 I had handy at the time,
not so good.

To be sure, Atlas did better than b-mann
at compensating for the classic cog of a three pole motor.

I believe I bought three total mp-15's ....mmmm...
I know it was two, did I get a third?

I know the two ran much the same.

Please accept that Brakie has said to me is that he does not run his locos
at that slowest of speeds... in the imitation of coasting to a stop.
Or that oh so tough.. pushing several loaded cars from a standing start.

It is not possible to convince some one who does not model that
part of loco operations.
For those folks I spend a lot of time trying to
get them to stop telling me:
who you gunna believe?  me or your lying eyes ?

some days are better than other some days.

victor

[Brakie]

Vic wrote:Please accept that Brakie has said to me is that he does not run his locos
at that slowest of speeds...
--------------------------
Exactly where did I say that? ???

I fully believe that anybody that has read my posts over the years on various forums will recall I seek slow speeds for switching since my favorite layout is a ISL and it seems only you have missed that point as well as recalling my roster is 100% Atlas or did you have a senor moment? 


Please read and comprehend the following.

Now I could careless if a motor has 3,5,7,10 or 100 poles as long as it delivers smooth starts and slow speed switching.
------------------------

Now if you enjoy worrying about how many poles a motor has good fer ya and I am happy for you.

In the mean time I'll enjoy the hobby like I've for the last 59 years worry free over such trivial matters.

[SkipGear]

Brakie,
 You need to understand that as far as we know, Victors layout is a single piece of flex track. All he can do is slow speed switching..... back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Tie crawling speed is all he does so it is important to him, more so than the rest of us, it makes the piece of flex seem longer if he goes slower.

oops, almost forgot about the Christmas fireplace mantle loop used to endurance test the MP15's.

[Mark5]

For me I don't worry about the number of poles (7 would be better!).

It's like this - when one of my locos does not perform as expected (by me, in comparison to other locos I have) at low speeds I have to start wondering why.

There are several factors that can affect this, one of which is the motor.

I hope you guys don't run me off this forum on a rail ...  :

[Brakie]

N&W:It's like this - when one of my locos does not perform as expected (by me, in comparison to other locos I have) at low speeds I have to start wondering why.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed...

I usually start looking for the cause binding gears,dirt,thick grease on the gears,bad motor,screws to tight etc.I would say off hand about 90% of the time its a fixable problem.If its not fixable one of two things will happen..It will get a new motor or become trading fodder.

I had 2 older Atlas GP9s with "fast" motors and even though they had decent slow switching speed I replace the old motor with a slow motor.

Reason?

I just like the slow mos no more no less..

[FloridaBoy]

It is now the end of the year, and this has been one exhaustive and exhausting topic, which it seems we all drew our feet in the dirt to anchor ourselves.  No one seemed to have changed or even affected other's opinions, except I find all of the information to be informative.

Next, kudo's to Victor, who has been a fellow Atlas forumite since I was Steamguy back in the early 2000's and he was sort of famous for his advocacy of the Atlantic, which has been unflagged since.

In any forum, when one expresses a strong opinion no matter how innocent its construction, many rally to "label" that person, and even I who have a ton of Bachmann products have been labeled on this and other forums throughout the  years, a "Bachmann Basher". When it gets down to the eggs and grits, I have a healthy respect for Bachmann since the 2002 Train Show down here when I got to spend time watching and talking to Lee Riley, the brains behind new products from Bachmann and Spectrum.  Believe me, they take much more than an apathetic assignment to Kader to develop their product. 

It seems to me that there is not one pat answer to this question, but deep down in my "rules of thumbs" is that given a chance on a new motor in a valued locomotive, it will be a 5 pole motor, no matter what. 

Cogging is a very strong subject, and just how bad is it when you have to push a $150 loco on a track to get it started when throttling it didn't do the job?

I value everyone's input because it makes good reading, and except for the labeling, pretty much kept the course on subject and not result in personal bashing.  Way to go guys. 

As for me, I am now starting my inventory of trains, which I will give to my ex-wife in the case of my unexpected passing, and one of the listings will be the type of motor, 3 or 5 pole, flywheel or no.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[Mark5]

Example of one of my model railroad goals: train stopping and starting:

/>
Train starts moving at about 2:25

Note the lack of stuttering.

Mark

[SkipGear]

Mark,
 That is easy to replicate with a load behind the train. The inertia of the train is what makes the loco start slow and smooth. It's harder with just the loco, or even just a few cars, even for the real thing.

A real train with a jack rabbit start (sort of) I wish the video conversion wasn't so jumpy.

/>
A model train - 3 pole - with what I consider fine slow speed control.

[victor miranda]

Mark,
 That is easy to replicate with a load behind the train. The inertia of the train is what makes the loco start slow and smooth. It's harder with just the loco, or even just a few cars, even for the real thing.

A real train with a jack rabbit start (sort of) I wish the video conversion wasn't so jumpy.

/>
A model train - 3 pole - with what I consider fine slow speed control.

/>

Hi skipgear,
I am writing a longer post.  asking  in a quick post.
I hear buzzing?  pulse ? or DCC?
the second video.... only one I watched so far.
the cogyness is from the video ?

v