Oh no! I'm Having THOSE Kinds of Thoughts Again!

[sirenwerks]

Nice trackplan, Dave.

[DKS]

Notes: Minimum radius in the helix is 10 inches; it could be pushed to 10.5 or 11, but this would make disguising it more awkward. Dual track enginehouse may not be practical as the tracks are really short. Switches on the mainline are #7; all others, except for the four curved switches, are #5. The criss-crossing sidings in Aberdeen were inspired by the source plan. Naturally it be changed back; I thought it added just a little more interest.

This is of course just a starting point; Lee's suggestion is a good one, and others may chime in, so revisions are sure to come.

[Dave V]

I have to be honest, it looks like you're trying to fit too much into the space.  You will end up with sidings that are too short to do much with and not enough room for scenery.  If you can do what you did before and throw the yard off the side on a separate shelf, you'd be in much better shape.

[davefoxx]

DKS,

That looks great!  Thanks so much for taking time to help me.  I like the crossing you added in Aberdeen as well, because this adds a little challenge and operational interest to the layout.

I'd like to add the Yard-on-a-Shelf, as Lee suggested, but this layout will be totally freestanding with no wall to support the shelf.  Believe me, if that changes, the yard (Fayetteville) WILL be added.  The yard on my last layout added so much to operations, turning a roundy-round into an out-and-back-style track plan.  The same would hold true here.  Dave Vollmer recently told me that Enola Yard has done the same for the Juniata Division.  So, I'm aware of the pros of that yard.  We'll just have to see if and when I can add it to the layout.  At this point, I'll be happy to get the main section of the layout under construction with the provision to attach the yard at any point that I can do so.  In other words, a turnout will be installed, allowing for the yard lead to branch off of the loop.

I can't wait to get started!!!

Thanks again,
Dave

[davefoxx]

I have to be honest, it looks like you're trying to fit too much into the space.  You will end up with sidings that are too short to do much with and not enough room for scenery.  If you can do what you did before and throw the yard off the side on a separate shelf, you'd be in much better shape.

I hear you, Dave, and that may exactly be what I find when I lay actual track out on the layout.  My biggest concern, as was David K. Smith's, was fitting in the loop.  As I stated in my last post, I only have room for this one freestanding table.  I just don't have room in our existing basement to add the shelf.  It will share space in the basement with storage shelving, a treadmill, my bike trainer, and excess furniture.  It's not so much a question of requisitioning additional space from my wife.  There's just nothing else to take.

As for the short sidings, the trains on the A&R tend to be short anyway, but I will do everything I can to maximize the length of the yard tracks.  I'll even forgo the Southern interchange, if necessary.  I also am willing to add length to the door by screwing on 2"x2"s to maximize those track capacities. As for scenery, we're only talking about pine trees in the sandhills of NC, so there's not much lost if a few trees are squeezed out.  Besides, that's just that many more trees that I won't have to build.  ;D  Seriously, I do my best trackplanning in 3D on the actual layout.  This is the first time that I have even ever bothered to create a track plan.  I usually just start laying track in the space and see how it comes out, moving track around as necessary.  I'll do that here, too.  What DKS has done for me, though, is to show that it is at least worthwhile to attempt this plan or at least continue to more forward without fear of making changes to improve its functionality.

Thanks,
Dave

[extra7000south]

I really like the plan Dave.
I hope that it will work out for you. 

[wm3798]

Call the ReStore in Wilmington... They can help you with that excess furniture issue...

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I don't like the loop. At all.

While I like the idea of the grade, in theory, I think that when you put that all down in reality, you're going to find that the whole thing is too packed in there, and that the scenery is just going to look too contrived.

I'd strongly advise ditching the helix, and doing more with less.

[davefoxx]

Heh!  I've got a whole house full of furniture in my townhome in Rising Sun that still hasn't sold.

[davefoxx]

I don't like the loop. At all.

While I like the idea of the grade, in theory, I think that when you put that all down in reality, you're going to find that the whole thing is too packed in there, and that the scenery is just going to look too contrived.

I'd strongly advise ditching the helix, and doing more with less.

I almost cross-posted with you on this issue, as I was responding to Lee's.  I agree.  The more I stared at it tonight, the more I began to realize how much extra aggravation it will be to build it.  That, and switching N scale trains on small layouts with grades can be a real pain in the arse.

What it could have done for me is add a little more mainline run and provide a place to branch off to the Yard-on-a-Shelf.  That can be rectified by perhaps shifting Raeford towards the left end of the layout enough to add a branch off the top right.

[DKS]

It's funny, but I almost posted a "this is what I'd do" version last night, and it wouldn't have the helix. I was torn about it because I thought some clever boy would point out that I have two of them on my layout. But it's precisely because I have them that I'd advise against it. Disguising it will be a major challenge and may never look right, construction will be a PITA, and the grades will probably be way worse than you were anticipating.

[Brakie]

The above plan is exactly the way I would build the A&R.

[davefoxx]

It's funny, but I almost posted a "this is what I'd do" version last night, and it wouldn't have the helix. I was torn about it because I thought some clever boy would point out that I have two of them on my layout. But it's precisely because I have them that I'd advise against it. Disguising it will be a major challenge and may never look right, construction will be a PITA, and the grades will probably be way worse than you were anticipating.

I'm not saying that I'm clever, but when you lifted off the top of your Z scale layout at Timonium to display the loops underneath, let's just say that image went straight into my mental bank and was part of the inspiration for the loop on this layout.  But, I think y'all are correct: the loop should go.  What I may do instead is just add small elevation changes, e.g., 1/2" here or 1" there, which will add a little something something to the layout scenically, but not destroy operations or create a construction nightmare.  I really like the revised plan and appreciate your time and assistance.

Thanks!
Dave Foxx

[wm3798]

The loop would be far more effective as long as you have a way to hide it.  Not sure what the countryside is like down there in A&R land, but it seems a little tidal to have a big mountain around there...  Perhaps a landfill mound?

I like the idea of the loop, I've seen it done with great affect on Rob Carey's Rio Grande layout in Portland.  It's cool when a train disappears for longer than you think it should.  But his layout is a basement filler, and he has the real estate to get away with it, not mention being set in the Colorado Rockies, where the terrain is a bit more generous for the purpose of slight of hand tricks.

Flesh out the second David plan, add some scenery elements so we can see what you have in mind.  Then we'll all go to Brian's to finish his basement so you have someplace for it to go when you and Cynthia score the basement home of your dreams...

Lee

[John]

The loop would be far more effective as long as you have a way to hide it.  Not sure what the countryside is like down there in A&R land, but it seems a little tidal to have a big mountain around there...  Perhaps a landfill mound?

I was stationed at Fort Bragg for a while .. the countryside is quite hilly .. not Western Maryland like, but similar to where I live now ..