staging, is it worth the headache?

[Dave Schneider]

As far as "looking at the discussion through the lens of your layout," you began the discussion by asking about the utility of staging, presumably for your layout, so it makes sense for the rest of us to refer to your layout when addressing the issue.

not every topic is a self serving discussion that requires advice or presumption.  intelligent people have discussions on all manner of topics in which they have no personal gain.  it's the cornerstone of debate.

Steve.

This response seems a bit heavy handed, especially to someone with 10 total posts who offered a respectful opinion. What you may be missing here is that nice people are suggesting solutions to your design questions. I (like many others I suspect) thought this thread started with respect to your current design. I appreciate the concrete suggestions and designs from David K. Smith and others but much of this "debate" looks to me like an excuse for an argument. Seems to me like they are trying to be helpful....just a thought.

Best wishes, Dave

[asciibaron]

This response seems a bit heavy handed

i have stated several times that the intent of the topic was not about specific issues with my layout yet the comments and "advice" continue to come. you can presume all you want, but that does not mean it is correct.  i find it taxing that any comment i make with regard to model railroad operating or layout design is met with "just build your layout already".  

for some the process is as much a part of the hobby as is the final product.  the journey is more important than the destination.

[DKS]

Not the sort of direction I'd care to take in this topic, but I do feel that Steve has a point. His original post was not specific to his current layout plan, only to the general situation of "limited space." For the most part, the discussion has been quite helpful (particularly for a non-ops modeler like me), but it seems to veer off toward more targeted remarks that aren't being solicited.

[mcjaco]

i'm starting to wonder is staging is worth the headaches.  next house has a massive basement that will allow open staging.

The basement comment led me to believe this was about your layout.

As for the "jumping into cabs" idea.  How did the train get to the siding in the first place?  I'd assume that meant the last crew timed out, and the train is still sitting there from the last session.  Which would be interesting, but most ops guys, don't want to jump into a train that's already halfway through it's run.  Typically you sign up for a train from the start to finish.

[Ian MacMillan]

... but most ops guys, don't want to jump into a train that's already halfway through it's run.  Typically you sign up for a train from the start to finish.

But maybe thats what we need to change in the operations hobby. You really can't say you are operating realistically when at the end of every session its an empty race track...unless you are operating a single train short line.

[asciibaron]

Typically you sign up for a train from the start to finish.

i know what you are saying, but the train starts wherever it is when the session starts.  it could be in some hidden staging loop, some yard track, or some siding.  it starts where it is - does it really matter where that is to the operator?  if so, why?

is it a mental thing - "i ran the train from Connellsville to Cumberland" but neither of them are on the layout - all you did was run it from one storage track to another through a bunch of scenery.

[asciibaron]

But maybe thats what we need to change in the operations hobby. You really can't say you are operating realistically when at the end of every session its an empty race track...unless you are operating a single train short line.

i'm quickly gathering the like minded.  ;D

[Dave Schneider]

This response seems a bit heavy handed

i have stated several times that the intent of the topic was not about specific issues with my layout yet the comments and "advice" continue to come. you can presume all you want, but that does not mean it is correct.  i find it taxing that any comment i make with regard to model railroad operating or layout design is met with "just build your layout already".  

for some the process is as much a part of the hobby as is the final product.  the journey is more important than the destination.

Steve,

I see your point. Well here I go not following the advice I offer (ask my kids about this...I do it all the time)....but if you don't like the suggestions it is always possible to let them go bye without comment or even a "Thanks, I hadn't thought of that, but here is my point...". I think that this is especially true when new people post their thoughts, it is the polite thing to do IMO. Threads go in a variety of directions all the time. For some people offering specific suggestions is how THEY like to participate.

Best wishes, Dave

[asciibaron]

I see your point. Well here I go not following the advice I offer...

thanks, I hadn't thought of that  ;D   

[conrail98]

But maybe thats what we need to change in the operations hobby. You really can't say you are operating realistically when at the end of every session its an empty race track...unless you are operating a single train short line.

I'm in agreement with you there,

Phil

[mcjaco]

But maybe thats what we need to change in the operations hobby. You really can't say you are operating realistically when at the end of every session its an empty race track...unless you are operating a single train short line.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying it's the right way to operate, but it sure has been the way ops have been run for years.  The only jobs I've seen that start you somewhere in the middle of a layout are, Yard Masters, or local jobs. 

Being told you're the relief crew for LCS182 from the last session would be kind of cool.  Whoever assigns trains just better give that crew a better train, when they finish that job!   ;D

[cv_acr]

If the train outlaws in the middle at the end of the session, that's where it should be picked up next time. Or if you do some solo running in between formal sessions, leave one out somewhere to add to the experience.

However, the reason this point came up in the first place was as an argument against the need for staging tracks by saying "look at what happens on the prototype". I do not agree with that argument. The train may be outlawed and waiting for a crew in the middle of the layout, but it still came from _somewhere_. So either it's a local that originates on the layout, or it must have come from some "off-layout" staging location.

[Hyperion]

While it took a few posts on Page 1 to flesh out his initial reasoning, asciibaron's point was that he didn't see a need for the mammoth expanse of hidden staging that is so common with many layout plans.  It wasn't a post against staging in general.

[asciibaron]

While it took a few posts on Page 1 to flesh out his initial reasoning, asciibaron's point was that he didn't see a need for the mammoth expanse of hidden staging that is so common with many layout plans.  It wasn't a post against staging in general.

i need a job that allows more time to flesh out my posts

[asciibaron]

So either it's a local that originates on the layout, or it must have come from some "off-layout" staging location.

it could have come from Mars - it doesn't matter - it is starting the session on the layout - thus it is staged.