rethinking the layout

[asciibaron]

i have been kicking around some possible layout ideas - the L&HR as a prototype just isn't going to work in my limited space.  small spaces don't do justice to bridge routes.  with the lessons of the L&HR and PRR's Panhandle in mind, i have some possible layout candidates...

The Norfolk and Western's Bluestone Branch - 1967
the Bluestone Branch of the N&W tapped the coal mines near Bramwell, Montcalm, and Matoaka West Virginia.  it was built to compete with the Virginian at Matoaka. operationally, it's mostly coal traffic with some small industrial customers - fuel dealer, light manufacturing, farm supply.  staging is required as is a small yard - it was a 5 track affair used to marshal the coal cars from mines up various hollows.  the yard was just west of Simmons and had no servicing that i can find.  the VGN and N&W lines run parallel from Rock to west of Matoaka with the N&W following the creek bottoms and the VGN high on the ridges.  the line is rife with bridges, tunnels, and tight curves; all hallmarks of a limited space layout.   the line is easily researched with the entire line viewable on-line using the Bing bird's eye view.

staging would represent the connection with the main and points east, such as Bluefield.  i envision a local turn from the main up to Matoaka as well as a coal extra working the mines.  the branch could be expanded to encompass more of the prototype if we move to a house with more space.

Pros:
a perfect mix of model railroad staples - tunnels, bridges, coal, and curves.
simple operations for one or two people
no need for complex dispatching or signaling systems

Cons:
not much in the way of non coal car traffic
no through freights

The Western Maryland - Thomas Sub (Bayard area compressed) - 1973
the Thomas Sub has some interesting areas that would work great as a model railroad.  the Bayard area has several branches that head up to various mines.  Bayard had a small yard and engine servicing area.  traffic was a mix of coal cars, wood chip cars, pulp wood cars, and mixed freight.  tight curves, some bridges, but no tunnels.  there is no local switching of industries other than coal mines in the area, but there was "main line" traffic headed to and from Elkins.

staging would represent points south and north which would require it to be through staging.

if we ever move, the WM equipment can be used for a different WM plan based on the Cumberland extension between Williamsport and Little Orleans.  local switching can take place in Williamsport and Hancock with plenty of coal and mixed freight traffic passing through.  staging would be Hagerstown and Cumberland on the WM and Cherry Run on the B&O.  

Pros -
easily researched
good amount of equipment available
simple operations for one or two people
excellent potential if a large space becomes available
limited main line freights (no auto racks, auto parts cars, or TOFC)

Cons-
no tunnels to hide staging
next to zero non coal local switching in the coal fields

i do have some other ideas, but right now i'm trying to decide between these two.  if i push my N&W idea into the 70's i could use the equipment for the expanded WM idea since the Alphajets used N&W power and cabins between Connellsville and Hagerstown.  i currently have a trackplan that could be used for either idea - i just need to make some changes if the line will not have tunnels.

[wm3798]

I wanted to include Bayard in my original plan, and I suppose a bit of re-labeling could accomplish that... I wouldn't be opposed to you working with that one, but you'll know who's bidding against you next time there's a bunch of WM hoppers up on ebay!

I'd like to see you tackle the NW branch.  I'm envisioning a Vollmeresque small town scene for the industrial switching area, and a more extensive coal operation than either he or I can allow for.

And Tim, I'm already modeling Thomas!

Lee

[sizemore]

And The S., I'm already modeling Thomas!

Lee

Although in light-hearted fun I removed my post. But I am jealous that you're modeling Thomas, cant wait to see the bridge.

The S.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I do know that, while it seems easy, the N&W isn't as simple as it seems. Right Mark?

(I think there are hopper availability issues)

[Mark5]

I do know that, while it seems easy, the N&W isn't as simple as it seems. Right Mark?

(I think there are hopper availability issues)

1967.

Well, ya gotta high nose EVERYTHING on the Pokey in that time frame (N&W did not allow merger locos into this hallowed ground for another decade or so).

For hoppers both Atlas and MT make 100 ton hoppers based on the N&W H11a-e series. Outside of that there is NOTHING correct for that era, with the exception of merger inherited outside braced 2 bay and 3 bay hoppers (NKP) and some close enough VGN 2 bays (MT). This would only be a problem if you are a proto nut (kind of impossible to be a proto nut for some roads!) - there are some "similar" models, with the Athearn/MDC peaked end rib side 70 ton a must have to represent N&W in most eras. I swear I'll have the decals for the hoppers ready soon (Athearn royally screwed up on the recent run of these).

There are NO correct cabooses. You can't used merger inherited cabs in 1967 cuz they didn't run on the old VA/WV N&W rails until the late 1970s.

But I like the idea. I am modeling the west end of the Pokey, and there I have a surprising number of non-coal customers.

Mark

[asciibaron]

I do know that, while it seems easy, the N&W isn't as simple as it seems. Right Mark?

well, that's like your opinion, man.

i'm not going to freak about being 100% proto - this is n scale.

[asciibaron]

the other WM idea is to model the C&P/ GC&C around Lonaconing/Midland/Gilmore

[DKS]

How about a different direction altogether: the Fonda, Johnstown, and Gloversville, in the 60s. Sleepy, colorful, eclectic little shortline, small locos, short trains, hauling coal and other freight. Staging could represent the interchange with the NYC at either Schenectady or Fonda; if the latter, the layout could represent the line from Fonda to Gloversville--evidently there was a lot of coal action along this stretch.

http://web.me.com/gino.dicarlo/FJGRRCO/A_Closer_Look.html

http://www.lostlandmarks.org/coalhouse1.html

Just a thought...

[SirTainly]

Just wondering if your existing models are a factor here vs thee cost of switching to something new, as that might make the choice obvious.

If you are set on a complete change, what about going more modern, 80s or 90s?

[davefoxx]

My only suggestion is that these two lines may be limited in the operations of any freight other than coal.  If that's your preference (coal railroading), then no problem once you decide N&W vs. WM.  If not, then you may wish to pick another line to allow for some more variety, which will probably keep your interest longer.

As for DKS's suggestion, there was a great article about the FJ&G in the August 1979 issue (I think) of Model Railroader.  Good enough that the memory of the article has stuck with me to this day, yet I haven't seen that issue in decades.

By the way, I agree with you about the "bridge line."  They are difficult to model in small spaces and just really limit you on operations, if you like switching.  This is why, for me, any plans to model the RF&P have usually included modeling a portion of the single-track C&O Piedmont Sub for operations with the RF&P as the minor player (double track partially-hidden continuous-running loop) at the interchange in Doswell, Virginia.

Hope this helps,
DFF

P.S.  Oh yeah, WM in 1973: you can model Chessie the Knife!  ;D

[asciibaron]

How about a different direction altogether: the Fonda, Johnstown, and Gloversville, in the 60s.

i have no connection to that area and for me, a large part of modeling is that personal connection to a line.  i have the issue of MR that details the FJ&G.

[AlkemScaleModels]

Since you are having trouble selecting a prototype, why not freelance a RR that meets most of your needs and desires?

[asciibaron]

Since you are having trouble selecting a prototype, why not freelance a RR that meets most of your needs and desires?

back when i was in high school i had developed an idea for a line from Hancock to the Broad Top coal fields and the South Penn called the Tonoloway Creek Railroad.  i could resurrect that.

[wm3798]

...and you could finance it by selling hopper cars to the masses!

[asciibaron]

...and you could finance it by selling hopper cars to the masses!

the Tonoloway and Laurel Valley